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@Moonbuggy Where did you get that 99.98% figure, that is not even remotely accurate.
Any figure backed up by science (peer-reviewed facts) generally. If we use the definition of intersex the current numbers are 1.7% according to scientists who are born with some form of intersexuality. Thus would not be defined medically as female or male strictly speaking.
I personally prefer to deter people from asking others about their genitalia unless they are sexually intimate with the person. As such I usually prefer not to answer that particular question.
I wouldnt presume to speak for the whole of the medical community.
But generally in language you dont ask someone what their genitals look like in order to determine if you refer to them as "him" or "her", it has always been, back to the beginning of language, that these terms refer to gender, not sex (a distinctly different concept).
Most transgender are fighting for the language that has always been historically used. That is, you use pronouns based on how a person presents themselves (gender) not what their genitals look like (sex). This is obvious since you dont usually **know** what sort of genitals a person has unless they are naked.
At no point in this conversation did I claim there was a third sex, not sure why you repeat that point to me twice now when it is unrelated to what I. said.
In fact everything you said is unrelated to. what I claimed. I never once said calling someone by a different pronoun would change their sex, I never even implied that.
What i did state was the very obvious fact that for the last 10,000 + years of language pronouns never referred to sex (as you could never see someone's genitals or DNA thus wouldnt have the information to do so). It has always throughout history referred to gender, not sex, a different thing entirely.
Please remind me in what langauge someone needs to see your genitals before they can determine what pronoun to use? Never in any language in the history of languages has someone went "oh wait I never saw the persons genitals so I dont know what pronoun to use"... It has literally **never** been the criteria for pronoun usage. Outside of medical discourse
When did I say or suggest that gender was equivalent to attire?
You seem to not understand the words being used in this conversation and just making assumptions about what they mean that are not the same as the actual meaning.
Using pronouns based on someone’s “Identity” and not material fact bastardizes our language and forces people to lie in order to keep someone’s delusions about who they are propped up. This is demoralizing to the person who is forced to lie, and is in no way helpful to a transgender person who must come to terms with their mental illness. The current wave of new transgender “women” are not dysphoric. They are cross dressing men who have made it their mission to invade women’s sex segregated spaces and our sports, effectively erasing women as a sex-based, protected category. Part of the reason that women are so angry is because we have been shouted down, insulted and harassed by these trans activists and their leftist supporters which are legion for standing up and saying we don’t want men in our spaces. If you are protrans in this debate, then I suggest you work to make men’s spaces more welcoming to them instead of expecting women to do so at the risk of our privacy and safety. @freemo @Robotpuppy @Moonbuggy
Considering that medical science disagrees with the. number stated then it would appear he would make statements that are both willy AND nilly.
When we talk about sex we include in that definition your genes and hormonal expression. If a person has genes that disagree with what their genitals appear to be then they are by definition ambiguous in terms of sex.
Simply not identifying the ambiguity at birth does not imply the ambiguity is. not there.
I will speak to the science. I will 'splain whatever i damn well please to whoever i damn well please. I will do so with respect, and expect you to do the same (Which you did not do just now).
No one gets to silence another, period. You are welcome to share your opinions, I will be happy to consider it, and share my own.
You want to make a point, then make it with facts, not some claim to authority, not going to fly here sorry.
Now if you either do not wish to hear the opinions of others, or otherwise dont wish to have an interaction in the first place, then you can either change your privacy settings or ask nicely. In either of these cases I will mute you if you wish.But if you expect other people to listen to you then you accpet the consequence of needing to hear their response as well.
As I made very clear I am not respectful because you didnt treat me with respect. Prior to that I engaged you respectfully. Sadly you lost that respect when you didnt return it.
Actually if you had followed the conversation I shared peer-reviewed meta-study to back up my claim and show the current scientific consensus I referenced. Here it is again for you.
To save you some time there isnt any**one** study that picks the 1.7% number. There are a lot, and a good deal of consensus and peer-review showing that number is at **least** 1.7%.
To save you some time I linked below a meta-study (meta studies are peer-reviewed and are themselves collections of many/most of the studies on the subject and aim to find consensus).
The study passed peer review and cited a figure between 1.7% - 4% as the consensus among scientists (which means they also agree on the definition). It also suggests this number is conservative. Here are some quotes from the linked paper:
Research has generally estimated that 1.7% to 4% of people go on to actually have intersex variations (Carroll, 2005; Fausto-Sterling, 1993; OII Australia, 2012b)
Given that many elements of sex (chromosomes, genes, hormones) are not apparent without testing, current estimates of the incidence and types of intersex variations seen in humans may be conservative.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2158244017745577
I have now pointed out the fact that at no point did I indicate or even suggest there is a third sex.
If your going to argue against things I never said go for it, but that has nothing to do with me.
Ok, please remove me from future tagging in this conversation, thank you.
This is the third time I asked, next time is a block. Thanks again.
If she would have engaged respectfully I would have been more than happy to read any links and discuss the points. But it was clear she had no intention of doing so, so I wouldnt waste my energy on a one-way discussion.
The figure, as with any fact, is certainly up for discussion.
Glad we agree then that ones outward appearance is all you need to know to determine what pronoun to use and demonstrating my point that knowledge of ones genitalia is not a factor in choosing that language
Q.E.D. at its finest
No, all you know is that my gender is male (I present myself as a male to you externally). You have no clue what genitals I have. But based on my gender, and with no knowledge of any kind of my genitals, you were still successfully able to pick pronouns.
My gender (masculinity/maleness) certainly isnt subtle, your right. My sex however (my genitals) however are not showing in the picture, and thus there is no indication what it might be.
