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In the wake of the riots the only thing that saved one business/home from destruction was the sign "minority owned".
This is what happens when people take what should have been a unifying cause against police brutality, which effects us all of any race, and turns it into a race war where the police officer embodies the whole of the whites and all whites are inherently guilty.
No one is right in any of this, not the rioters, not the people who dismiss the riots, not the people drawing the lines on racial terms and certainly not the police officers.
@vnarek that is sad, I agree. Nor would I necceseraly say it effects everyone equally. There is a big difference between making this a purely racial thing and recognizing it as a plight we all share with one group somewhat more effect than the other.
for the record if we really are going to pick the group that is "most" effected by police brutality as our focus, then it wouldnt be blacks, it would be males.. virtually 100% of nonviolent offenders murdered by police are male, a far greater disparity than black vs white. I am not saying that to suggest we should make this a male problem, but it is meant to highlight the fact that making this about demographics rather than police brutality detracts from the issue IMO.
@freemo Problem is if your social group is not affected by something that much you are less keen to do something about it, which is the reason why this is still happening in 2020.
I am not trying to justify rioting. I would prefer to live in peace, but no one really gave a fuck until this happened. In the long run this is unproductive, looks bad and creates additional hate towards minority groups.
@vnarek well yes and no.. Whites are **hugely** imapaced by police voilence.. Blacks are also impacted by police voilce even more so something on the order of 30% 40% more if we just look at statistics i think (I'd have to go refresh on the numbers).
So claiming a social group here (implying whites) is "not effected" by police violence is just an outright fallacy. We are, less so than blacks, but still more than enough for it to be a major issue.
@freemo Thanks for the information. I should look up the numbers and not go with the feeling my bad. I thought it was more minor affection.
I would prefer demonstration of milions vs rioting of hundreds all day any day. It would be equally effective and without bad optics.
I agree with your sentiment overall.
@vnarek Thanks. by the way I have no issue with blacks pointing out their portion of the plight and how it is unique.. It **should** be a part of the discussion for sure.
My issue is that it has become the whole of the discussion, not just an aspect of it. So far in fact that it seems the white are seen as the aggressor and the enemy in many cases (at least by the looks of the riot).
It should be a unifying quality with many facets that accept that whites are afflicted by this problem just as blacks are (and recognizing blacks take a bigger hit in that discussion)... but thats not how its playing out.
@freemo What do you think about other stuff that happened parallel to this. Like CNN reporter getting arrested for trying to document rioting by the police. Or trump saying that "If there is looting, there will be shooting".
@vnarek Trumps comments are irrelevant to me.. I mean he isnt wrong, if rioting progresses shooting can and likely will come next (we saw that in the last set of riots after all where cops were getting shot).. But I really dont know what making that statement hopes to accomplish... riots mean people die (two already have been killed in them), thats obvious.. what I care about is what are we going to do about it.
As for the the reporters being arrested.. well I think it shows that cops arent really too selective about who they arrest. which might hint at the underlying issue but is kinda minor compared to the whole killing innocent people thing.
@freemo The word on the ground is that a lot of the arsonists are from out of town. Yesterday, the protesters at the 5th precinct were scattered by the cops. Later that night, folks no one recognized started burning things, including some much-loved , small, local businesses. People around here believe that legitimate protests have been hijacked by people with different agendas. In the daytime, for the past three days, locals have been cleaning up, boarding up windows, and donating food.
@freemo They've imposed a curfew, and the mayor of St. Paul has gone on camera saying that the arrests from last night were all from out of state.
@freemo I know that property is nothing compared to a life, but the arsonists burnt a bookshop that was very loved. No local did that.
@Lwasserman Assuming for a second that its people from out of town, how does that change anything in the least? People are rioting against whites explicitly and murdering and burning building to the ground. that is the relevant part, whether they are local or out of town changes absolutely nothing about the fact that it is an unacceptable response.
@freemo @Lwasserman I see mostly white crowds in most riot shots
You've seen very different shots than me then. The video of the looting of the target was almost exclusively black.
I'm not trying to blame black people mind you. But I've seen a majority blacks when it comes to people actively looking and destroying property.
Here is a video of the looting of the target.. Seems a strong majority of blacks I'm seeing outside and going in and out.
Again not that I think its all that relevant. I dont see the blacks as the bad guy here overall (both sides are). But there is a very strong anti-white sentiment in the riots in minneapolis and I think that is obvious.
I think from some that is true, and I'm glad a lot of people see it that way.
Though sadly there is a thread of anti-white sentiment among a great many polarized in the issue too.
I am happy to hear the anti-cop sentiment, sad to hear the anti-white one. Simple as that.
@freemo @Lwasserman white people need to stop sucking so much 
People need to stop sucking so much, white, black, and everything inbetween. so I dont disagree.
@freemo The problem with it being a group of folks out of town, is that while the locals were gathering, yelling, and damaging a couple of chain stores, the out-of-towners destroyed Mom & Pop shops, drug stores, the post office, and a gas station amidst a residential neighborhood. The latter group is rendering a poor neighborhood completely unlivable. Grocery stores are shut. Buses have stopped their routes. And several of those local protesters were physically trying to defend the local shops. It is two, very different things.
@Lwasserman That seems like quite a huge leap with very little evidence.
While you could be right, assuming a division like that without any objective evidence in an emotionally charged scenario is dangerous at best.
Id be willing to accept that maybe that happened, but largely we cant and dont know what dynamic the group had. No one is on the street surveying what everyones hometown is.
@freemo I wasn't at the protests. Several friends were. The destruction is verified. Let me see if I can get you some good pictures that haven't spread as far yet.
@Lwasserman Im not doubting the destruction. I know full well the destruction is wide spread... How did your friends verify the hometown of the people doing the destruction? Are you friends going up to people and taking a survey of where they live?
A tourist yes, we arent talking about tourists. No one is spotting someone from one county over in the same city based on how they loot.. come on now.
Thats my whole point, surveying a mob is silly, no one is going to do it. ergo no one has a clue what the composition of the mob was. thats the point.
@freemo @Oblivia Folks around here are saying that it's not them. The ward representatives are organizing groups to protect their areas. Dreamhaven is asking for local geeks to help defend the store. Meanwhile, people are seeing folks that they don't recognize. Sometimes Minneapolis is described as "a big small town". People know each other. This is weird.
I dont buy it.. no city is "small town" enough for people to just see someone and go "he is out of town I dont recognize him".
Emotions are running really high, people draw conclusions wildly off the mark when that happens. I'm not likely to buy into any anecdotal impressions about the riots honestly.
Dont get me wrong I do expect a decent portion of people rioting to be out of town. Usually riots start by locals and then when it starts people out of town hear about it and come to the area to get some free shit. So I do expect there to be a noticeable population of outsides involved.
But a majority, or even the ones instigating it, I'm highly skeptical of that.
I am a traveler so I'd be happy to visit (though I tend to be very skeptical of claims without evidence so not likely to shift my thinking)
@freemo This isn't pictures from friends. It's more official. But both the St. Paul mayor and the Minneapolis police chief are stating that the folks they are arresting are from out of state.
@Lwasserman So I just watch it.. Doesnt seem the mayor or the police chieve said the **majority** of people were outsiders.. they did say **many**, and that I can understand that many, though not a majority, were likely outsiders.
@Lwasserman two people so far have been killed in the riots.. so the whole "property doesnt compare to a life" argument is nullified off the bat.
@freemo I was somewhat selfishly mourning the loss of a bookstore. I do not mean to make light of the loss of lives.
@freemo It is so sad that arresting a murderer took riots all over Minneapolis. Yeah, it affects us all, but not equally and not everyone is uniting. It is just much more comfortable to ignore the problems.