@pthenq1 You really dont see the problem with passing emergency laws that prevents someone who received the vaccine from suing the government or the company that made it if they are died or injured and at the same time requiring people to vaccinate if they want to perform certain tasks...

You cant cook up something in a lab, bypass all safety, then require people to vaccinate if they want to be part of society and go to public gatherings or get a job.

The second they passed a vaccine that was given emergency privilage to bypass safety protocols was the moment they lost **any** right to force anyone to be vaccinated under any circumstance. Volunteer, sure.. but now you are seriously going to tell me my nurse friends, most of whom do not want to put their life and health at risk on a rushed and unsafe vaccine, need to loose their job and thats perfectly acceptable.

Cut me a break, its astonishing you cant see the problem here.

@freemo I see the problem, but it is not a big one.

The vaccines are in the context of a pandemic. There is a pandemic outside.

In the context of a pandemic (last one similar, 1918), some jobs will require extra care. Including a vaccine.

If a vaccine is required and a person does not have it, it makes sense they stop working on that.

It is all voluntary. We are all adults here.

The vaccine is safe up to a point; it can be said. 1 or 2 more years are required to certify it completely. But the process for emergency approval was thorough.

There are a fund and insurance (the vaccine insurance) covering the 2 o 3 people per million having horrible reactions to the vaccines. The government supports it, and it has existed since at least the 1990s.

I understand it is not ideal. But 3000 people dying is not ideal either. We have to choose.

And again, all the vaccination bushiness is voluntary. Of course, there are consequences if someone gets vaccinated or not.

Personally, I think not getting vaccinated is the same that chose to go outside while an enemy making bombs rain... it is crazy, irrational, and dangerous.

But hey, everybody is free of doing whatever. There will be consequences. That for sure.

@pthenq1 This is so horribly naive as to the problem.. you are citing people having reactions to the virus the 2 r 3 m per million **that is not the concern**..

The concern is not people reacting to a virus being administered int he days or even month after, that is easily handled with short term safety tests and not even the **point** of the tests that were skipped.

The tests skipped were the long term tests, they are not designed to test the risk of th vaccine causing harm immediately after administration.

If you bothered to read the scientific journals on the topic the thing doctors are up in arms about is the lack of **long** term tests, ones that on most vaccines typically fail to pass due to ADE.

With ADE a person administered a vaccine can and often does show short term immunity and is perfectly reaction free. However those immunized long term (9 months, a year or more) into the future will show deadly reactions to the virus they are immunized against causing those vaccinated to become significantly more ill (and often die) than those unvaccinated. ADE is primary reasonw e do long term testing at all.

The skipping of long term tests means there is absolutely **no** protection against ADE. There is a small, but not 0 chance that anyone vaccinated will become a walking time bomb and in a year exposure to the virus would be deadly to those vaccinated. This is the reason the vaccine panel in europe was urged to not release the vaccine and the reason so many doctors are pissed off and pushing to hold off on releasing it, al of which are falling on deaf ears.

Please dtop with this nonsense and bother to educate yourself on what the concern even is before you come in with this shit, because your response suggests you are copletely naive to the risks being discussed (if you werent you wouldnt be talking about short term adverse reactions, that isnt even a concern at all!).

We have seen the dangerous of rushed vaccines before, people die.. here we are again playing dice, virtually forcing people to get a vaccine with no right to sue (insurance is not sueing, it is capped and will not help when everyone gets ADE, its not a big enough fund to cover that).

In the chance that ADE becomes a real concern here, and while it may be small chance, the result is FAR FAR more dead than what COVID could do on its own, thats the risk, and the fact that you are perfectly ok with that risk being forced onto health professionals is saddening and very telling at the same time.

@freemo ADE is not likely like very UNlikely.

This is because #COVID19 vaccines do not use the inactivated virus, and ADE reactions were not observed in patients under phase 3 trials.

To be clear: if ADE is a possibility with the vaccines, we should see cases on the phase 3 trials. And there are none.

It is a false claim: https://www.newswise.com/factcheck/the-claim-that-covid-19-vaccines-will-cause-more-severe-disease-through-antibody-dependent-enhancement-is-not-yet-supported/

Some papers about the subject remarks that is very very unlikely.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-00789-5#Sec4

https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/222/12/1946/5891764

So all good.

@pthenq1
I already stated it is unlikely, but if it occurs the results woukd be horrific and thus why we have long term trials.

No we would not see it in these phase 3 trials as they are two short to show ade, under normal vaccines with long term phase 3 trials we would see it.

@pthenq1
I do find it funny though that all the links agree with what i said, for the most part. As i said ADE is not a garuntee but the risk, even though being a minority chance, has devastating results. Even as the links pointed out there are many peer reviewed journals pointing out the riska of ADE and no one has been able to rule it out.

Even the papers you link claim mixed results and a chance of ADE.

@pthenq1
Quotes directly from your own post (peer reviewed journal) and supports exactly what i said perfectly:

ADE has been observed in SARS, MERS and other human respiratory virus infections including RSV and measles, which suggests a real risk of ADE for SARS-CoV-2 vaccines and antibody-based interventions. However, clinical data has not yet fully established a role for ADE in human COVID-19 pathology. 

@freemo The paper says: "No definitive role for ADE in human coronavirus diseases has been established. "

That is the strongest NO possible.