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:: tens of thousands of people die of covid everyday::
COVID conspiracy theorists: Bah the numbers are made up, they just report anyone who dies for any reason as a covid death. Fake news!
:: one person who already had severe allergies and a heart condition dies from the COVID vaccine::
Also COVID conspiracy theorists: OMG see the vaccine is deadly an more dangerous than the virus, it is a legit threat and has a microchip in it!
@freemo I have a friend who is way too deeply into that :(
@wa__em too many people are. The problem is the government legit broke a lot of trust while simultaniously fear mongering the topic (one that warrents some degree of natural fear regardless)...
The end result is no trust and a lot of fear to go around. That tends to manifest in all sorts of unusual ways. One of which is conspiracy theory nonsense.
Headlines like this are so dishonest because they rely on people not understanding statistics.
If everyone gets vaccinated, and the vaccination is 99.9999% effective, you would be telling the truth to say "100% of all new covid cases are vaccinated people"... but despite being true it is highly manipulative since people dont understand that it isnt really saying anything of value, its just meant to sound scary and say nothing.
"the fact that you aren't"
I'm not? I ask that question all the time, and work pretty heavily with that question.. It simply wasnt relevant to the point being made.
βStatistics isn't about discovering correlations, it's about eliminating coincidence."
Exactly, which is why all the science on this topic which has passed peer review does exactly that, not just look at correlation but have quite a bit of procedure designed to eliminate coincidence. In fact I elaborated on a small snippet of that already in the thread.
If you think im missing some points, by all means, feel free to explain it. But you seem to talk in sound bites and links so as to avoid any critical interpretation; not much I can do with that honestly.
@freemo it comes down to two things 1) personal protection, 2) R0 & to what extent the various interventions addresses 1) & 2), respectively. If we agree no drug is 100% safe & effective, then the vax is likely a short term placebo for most people w/unknown long term effects. If vax reduces severity, they can claim success, but not contracting COVID also eliminates potential severe symptoms.
@yaksha @wa__em
If we agree no drug is 100% safe & effective, then the vax is likely a short term placebo for most people w/unknown long term effects.
This statement makes no sense to me. Why would something that is <100% effective, for example something 99.9999% effective suddenly just be a placebo?
@freemo It's a placebo because the patient believes it works. Did the patient have natural immunity? Would they have had mild reaction had they caught the virus? How do you measure whether a patient's immune system has been primed for covid pre & post vax?
IIRC, placebo is 33% effective, better than most drugs they're tested against.
@yaksha @wa__em
What the patient thinks isnt where the statistics come from.. we dont figure out how many people with vaccines get infected anyway by going "hey buddy do you think you have covid". Moreover placebo effect (which can in fact cause real physiological protection and isnt just a mental state) is tested against, its the whole point of double-blind studies.
So no, that is completely nonsensical, we already adjust for placebo effect and measure actual infection rates compared against placebo to insure a vaccine is truely effective.
None of that of course requires a vaccine to be 100% effective either.
