Blocked for being trans
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I am a pretty tolerant person of personal morality... but dude, blocking people solely for being trans, and announcing it, and when you are the one who initiated contact (I suspect) of all things. Dude, no, just no, that is disgusting of you.
I am not saying you have to interact with any group of people. But to consciously and intentionally hate all trans people and worse yet admit it like its somehow a morally acceptable stance that you arent ashamed of... no... just no
I know weve been friends on the fediverse to one degree or another for a while, but this is the first time I'm hearing say such things and I cant express just how much respect I lost for you hearing that.
Its not about if the person cares or not. Its about the fact that it was wrong, that your prejudice is wrong, that you know it is wrong and still did it.
You are welcome to try to explain your thinking, and my hope would be maybe you learn something and change that thinking along the way as part of that discussion.
But I can assure you there is no logic you could sell me where I will find conscious hate and segregation of all transpeople as an acceptable moral stance.
I appreciate that you seem to have changed your mind on transpeople then. A good first step, other than treating them respectful in the future, would be to apologize to @Luna I'd say.
Spinster is an instance devoted to hating trans people... thats a pretty weak excuse especially considering it was **after** the fact. That said, what evidence was provided from that very obviously bias anti-trans source?
Nope. spinster is the only server QOTO silences that has over 10 users because they spent several days engaging in harassment of our users (including myself) that included creating multiple accounts to evade blocks when their harassment were blocked. As such it has been the only server of more than a dozen people we have ever needed to silence and remains silenced to this day.
For starters, the reason I dont engage with what they said is because i cant see what they said, and frankly given that non-sense explanation im kinda glad I cant hear them.
Jar being one of your friends doesnt make their argument any more compelling. I am not telling you who you can be friends with. I'm not even telling you what to think or what morals to have. I am telling you that your actions are a disgrace and cause me to loose a great deal of respect for you.
Now you said you were wrong, if you believe that and demonstrate that moving forward I have no problem saying you can regain my respect. No one is perfect and learning and growing will always regain my respect. But as we stand right now I am quite disgusted by what I see.
Jar said: It’s ok to engage with my opinions and his opinions, but it’s unlikely that he will agree with me. He leans left I think, so do I. I focus on women’s rights, he does not. But we probably have similar beliefs. Sometimes small conflicts within one side divide people more effectively than if they were on opposite sides.
I cant speak to if Luna agrees with me in other areas, it very well could be the case. I'm not sure how relevant it is. Keep in mind im not engaging with luna simply because the server is silenced due to aforementioned reasons. Otherwise I would have no objection to talk it out with her.
That say women's rights, along with male rights, generally anti-sexism, is a very important priority for me. So to claim I dont care about women's rights is false. What is clear, however, is that she has very different opinions about women's rights or sexism in general than me.
Jar said: I’m jars not luna.
I didn’t say he was sexist, just that my main focus is on women’s rights. Other people on the left may focus on things like the environment or going against imperialism.
If he thinks I’m bigoted, I understand. I used to be a trans rights supporter who would always correct people’s pronoun useage and ask them to be kind. My beliefs changed from both experience and newthoughtcrime.com helping me feel ok with asking questions again. However, I don’t wish trans people ill. But if there are predatory trans people, especially towards minority sexual orientations, I will not excuse it. I’m sorry that he was harassed though.
Sorry luna was a typo/brain fart. Yes I meant Jar.
I can understand that Jar's perspective on women's right is a focus for her. For me women's rights are one among several things that matter to me and I dont generally prioritize one above another. The priorities of issues for her or me is not a big issue for me either way.
Her views on trans people are bigoted yes. Whether she treates them with hate or not I havent seen (in your case jojo that was the case) but based on her bigoted views I would expect her to likely treat them hatefully. That said I have not witnessed her directly interacting with a transperson so I can only speculate. But having bigoted views is enough for me to draw an opinion that is concerning, even if other facts she may not be such a horrible person.
I certainly dont mind her "asking questions", the concerning part seems to be the answers she came up with. Not wishing ill on trans people is a start. There are degrees to both hate and bigotry, but even moderate bigotry is quite appalling on its own.
As for her comments on "predatory" i suspect she has very different views on what constitutes predatory, but maybe not. Regardless predatory women, men, trans, CIS, whatever is not acceptable. I really see no need to qualify a persons gender when talking about how predatory anything is bad... not entierly sure how someone can be predatory to someones orientation though, not even sure what that means.
Finally, I do appreciate the apology for the harassment and thank you for saying so. As far as I know Jar wasnt involved in that so I do not hold that against her in and of itself. Even the server I'd be happy to unsilence at the instance level should the admin of the server make a statement that the harassment was out of line and would not happen again int he future. But since she condoned it at the time the instance wide silence has regrettably needed to remain in force.
"Sometimes, the answers to the questions are sadly not the answers you wanted or expected."
This is true, and yet other times the answers are just plain bigoted and wrong. In this case I would say that is more apt a description.
"Words aren’t violence."
At no point in the conversation did I equate words to violence, nor is the quote she responded to in any way referencing violence. I very clearly spoke about hate and bigotry, not violence.
Jar said: “At no point in the conversation did I equate words to violence, nor is the quote she responded to in any way referencing violence.”
That’s fair.
“the answers are just plain bigoted and wrong.”
Maybe.
In my opinion, identifying as another group of people, specifically, an oppressed group is not a good thing to do. That’s not a human right.
none of what I said requires being trans to be a human right to be true. What is, or at least should be, a human right is bodily autonomy. A person can surgically alter their genitalia in any way they please and put whatever they want in their body.
You are perfectly fine in thinking undergoing transition is not a good personal choice to make.. What you dont have a right to do is dictate for others what is or is not the best choice for their own body. More over you absolutely have no right to hate them for a choice they make with their own body.
If all you did was say in a post "I dont think sexual transition is a healthy life choice for people to make" .. fine I'd have given you a pass. But that is not what you said or did. You literally excluded a person and said you felt hate simply because they were trans. Now your doing everything you can to justify it as well by mostly making irrelevant points. Hate is hate, you were wrong, period. It barely matters that they were trans other than the fact that being trans, changing their own body, is their right to do, its their body.
The issue is not bodily autonomy.
The issue is the idea that you can make those alterations and then identify as a member of another group of people, an oppressed group and expect that oppressed group to be ok with it. If they don’t fully support it then they are bigots, right?
In order to support the transgender movement, you have to believe either:
1. Women are not oppressed
2. It’s ok to identify as a member of an oppressed group of people.
That is the meaning behind the phrase “trans women are women.”
“Now your doing everything you can to justify it as well by mostly making irrelevant points.”
That you are calling this “irrelevant” is why I have trouble trusting other people on the left.
Identifying as a woman while being born male is a bigoted action against the female sex, who experience oppression worldwide. But of course, we are hateful for pointing this out.
"The issue is not bodily autonomy.
The issue is the idea that you can make those alterations and then identify as a member of another group of people, an oppressed group and expect that oppressed group to be ok with it. If they don’t fully support it then they are bigots, right?"
All of that implies you had a conversation with Luna and they expressed their views at all... you didnt. So no you dont get to make that defense. The only thing you knew is they were trans (that they either had hormone therapy, genital surgery, etc). They said absolutely nothing about their view and you had no interaction with Luna other than to be a bigoted asshole. No you dont get to use the excuse they called you a bigot for any reason, literally the only interaction you had was to actually **be** a bigot.
Trans gender is not a "movement"... it is an action people take on their own body. Beyond that the opinion of any individual trans person as to what rights they should have or to what extent they deserve the privileges of a woman is entirely different from person to person.
Luna never uttered the phrase "trans women are women", not that I would fault her if she did, but again your desperately working backwards to justify your disgusting bigotry on points that are pretty weak to begin with rather than trying to grow the hell up and admit you were wrong (which apparently at one point you did but now you are back peddling).
Yes I am calling it irrelevant because your making generalizations and assumptions and none of this in any way applies to an iota of interaction you had with Luna. So I really dont give a crap about this noise. What matters is you were an asshole to someone because of what they did with their own body, period, everything else you said never took place with Luna and you are assuming it based on your interactions with some nebulous trans people you once interacted with as if they are all one person with the same ideas. Like I said even then I'd side with trans people in that debate but it is a tangent in this case.
You want to get into general trans issues as a tangent such as identifying as a female or not, we can do that, separately, thats fine. But for this particular incident no, none of this applies. You acted in a disgusting way and you cant just talk your way out of it. You own up and be a man and learn from it and correct your behavior, or dont, those are your options.
Jar said: I saw Luna’s account with my own eyes.
“..justify your disgusting bigotry on points that are pretty weak to begin with rather than trying to grow the hell up and admit you were wrong (which apparently at one point you did but now you are back peddling).”
If my points are wrong, why are you simply attacking me instead of addressing them.
1. Are women oppressed? Are homosexual women oppressed?
2. Is it ok to identify as a member of an oppressed group that you are not part of?
It’s not wrong for me to disagree or be offended when a member of an oppressive group appropriates the group it oppresses. And now you are acting as tone police for how I react, when really I have been polite. It’s not hateful or bigoted at all to point out that identifying as transgender is just as bad as identifying as trans (any other oppressed group) and reacting accordingly.
Your last reply was addressed to you, not Jar, as you said it yourself and didnt indicate it was from jar. It seems now your last reply was in fact a copy and paste from Jar you just didnt say it.
The fact is, jar's opinion are one thing, I dont want to continue arguing with jar through copy and paste so they will have to use an alt account or we will just have to drop it for technical reasons.
Now if **you** want to discuss your actions jojoj, we can.
Jar is welcome to contact me from an account I can talk to Jar directly on. Otherwise I wont discuss through proxy it is too confusing.
and I am not talking about bringing you into the conversation with jar, i am talking about the conversations **we** started (and jar is a tangent conversations) about your hate, bigotry an disgusting behavior. If you want to continue being a horrible person go for it, you want to discuss it, go for it. Up to you. Has nothing to do with jar though.
I wouldnt go that far. You acted, in that post as a horrible person. You have not apologized to luna or in any way shown you were sorry, that means you continue to be a horrible person. I'm sure there are other ways in which you are good person. That does not negate the fact that you, in this instance, are acting deplorably.
Hey @p, does my "apparently horrible behavior" violate the terms of service on your instance? Please leave me alone about this issue, to be honest, I think I haven't did anything wrong. It's just a internet, that person who have just blocked me. Lol, even the trans person hasn't responded to the post yet, I think he muted it.
I never said you violated anything on your instance and you know damn well you didnt. P is ok with literal nazis and he is also very clearly ok with literal anti-trans people. You are trying to get daddy involved.
I already told you I have no problem dropping the issue when you mentioned it last post, making it clear that it has destroyed complete the positive view I had of you. So move along, I can see you arent a person I want to have interaction with anyway at this point.
As for luna (the trans person) they contacted me in DM.
Bye, i think we are done here. Hope daddy P strokes your delicate ego as usual.
@Jojothegoodperson So now you do want to have the conversation or not? There are a few things I dont tolerate, sexism, and racism are 2 of them
> There are a few things I dont tolerate, sexism, and racism are 2 of them
:gordonlol::1911::thasrite: KILL WHITEY :gunleft::dorner::gunright:
Also, here's a complimentary copy of the S.C.U.M. Manifesto. The y is an incomplete x, you're a walking abortion!
And I don't even have an ego, I only tagged him because you kept harassing me over this one fucking post, like is it that big of a deal to get enraged and make an entire thread arguing with me. Like, the trans people have transphobia on the fediverse since this place is diverse politically.
> P is ok with literal nazis
This is a lie, you fat sack of shit. I know the finer philosophical points like "I'm not their dad" and "Censorship is reprehensible" escape you, even the pragmatic points like "By forcing out anyone who fails any of your ideological shibboleths, you both blind yourself to what they are saying and you create two ideological echo chambers at once" or even "Censoring them validates their insistence that there is a conspiracy to cover up the truth and it feeds into their persecution complex", but I have once again over-estimated you by expecting you weren't so retarded as to think that there was some sort of equivalence between declining to compel someone and endorsing their ideas. FSE has some authoritarian-right people; it's also got tankies, anarchists, moderates, shitposters, aggressively apolitical people, and a self-described "Space Faustian" (I'll get back to you when I figure out what that means¹), it's impossible that I'm on-board with *all* of those agendas. (I try to get along with people, you should try it.)
> very clearly ok with literal anti-trans people
Literal? LITERAL?
:hacker_l::hacker_i::hacker_t::hacker_e::hacker_r::hacker_a::hacker_l::hoshi_q::hoshii_exclam::niccagecrying:
Last I heard, the anti-trans person that was so anti-trans he ran multiple anti-trans spam campaigns, ya boy Snow was banned from FSE but deleted his Qoto account voluntarily, because he did not like you. He went dark after a month here, but he was on Qoto most of a year, longer than any other instance he was on. You apparently didn't ban his "educating people about science by telling them trans people have HIV" account. @hiv is still there as of this moment! Just checked.
Of course, I told you to go ahead and block me (invitation still open), personally or at the instance level, and you said "Blocking is for the weak!" This was the same thing you said when I asked why you didn't just block MKULTRA when he was telling you he didn't care if you had an AR-15 and he called you a boomer. It's kind of hilarious: you'll demand someone be banned completely, but you won't block anyone, because that's "weak". I'd say whining at me to solve a problem that you could solve yourself is weaker. "Please save me from having to block someone I don't want to hear from by banning him completely!" Apparently you're not interested in banning *Snow*, for all of your "white savior"-style preachiness.
So, in addition to being a humorless, bellicose dickhead with a temper, you're a hypocrite. (And clearly okay with LITERAL anti-trans people! LITERAL!!) You never fail to disappoint, it's almost admirable. Never change, please.
--
¹ This is a figure of speech; I won't get back to you. Eat a bowl of dicks.
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- https://the-mad-pirate-prints.teemill.com/
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> @admin told him to eat a dick
This is the smart move.
> after freemo ordered him to take action against me for daring to reply to him on this account
Imma dig up that thread where he did the same shit with
. nep was there, and nep's only post in that thread was "I don't care if you block us or not. Untag me." By hour 16 of "Yeah, but you could ban him", and me very patiently explaining that he hadn't done anything worth getting banned and that he'd just make a new account anyway, I began to understand nep's genius.> daring to reply to him on this account (the subject in question was freemo mocking "racists" for conceding defeat by Blocking him).
> I guess he had me fooled for a while because he's disturbingly good at playing dumb.
I practically begged him to block me. He started babbling about a secret army of sockpuppet accounts he maintains to spy on people that block him.
Also don't bother with that s8n guy, he's an undercover pedophile.
Jar said: Sure people can do whatever they want with their own bodies. Of course people have bodily autonomy.
The issue is the idea that you can make those alterations and then identify as a member of another group of people, an oppressed group and expect that group to be ok with it.
This is true, but they don't have a right to force everyone else in the world to play along with their little role-playing game. Removing your own penis doesn't make you a woman, and people are free to point this out.
> other times the answers are just plain bigoted and wrong
A characterization doesn't form an argument, man. This is probably part of why you've got issues communicating. Sputtering "That's $x-ist!" doesn't convey much except that you don't like it, and the retort is "No, *you're* $x-ist!" Another big component is the melodrama, Jojo's shiptoastin and you decry his attempts to segregate all of the trans people. Iono what you're doin' here, man, you're taking yourself too seriously, your words are fat, you got my screen all greasy with your fat words.
I don't wanna read this thread to figure out what Jojo's asking. Terrible thread. Worst thread. Never make threads, just stop posting forever. All of the steampunk guys called and asked me not to say that, they burn your blubbery words to power their excessively bronzed blimps, you are a critical part of their economy, but I have to do the right thing here and ask you to never use the internet to communicate with humans because you're dragging the frame, there's gravitational lensing, the LIGO is observing you, there are massive photon bursts as you spaghettify all of the fun in your vicinity only to lock it up for 14 billion years and then emit it as high-entropy gamma radiation while you decay.
I don't know what Jojo wants to know, it's like, even if you're correct I will never have a way of knowing it because you are impossible to observe directly. Just please never post. Never put your thoughts into words and then convey them to people. I don't wanna type my words near your words because I'm worried I'll stop being able to make jokes forever. I can already feel the comedy leaving my body. I'll have to get super into model trains or something. Please delete your computer, please reformat the mainframe, possible SYN flooding on port 24800. Sending cookies. Check SNMP counters. Could not allocate bogomips: resource temporarily available.
hacker_crap.gif
I was just helping.
I thought going to the dentist was bad. You're right this thread is terrible. I'm going to have to watch the Kyle Rittenhouse shooting again https://thespacecoastrocket.com/every-video-of-kyle-rittenhouse-kenosha-shooting/
@Jojothegoodperson @Luna @freemo @Jar
@p @Jojothegoodperson @Luna @freemo @Jar
categorical logic, if used incorrectly, is not a friend
so what if someone is $x-ist?
to have a conversation, we need to talk about things... not shut people down for belong to a category of opinion.
i mean, i even talk to feminists and apple users. well, feminists.
MOVED
you just made it a good thread, or at least worth reading
Jar said: “I certainly dont mind her "asking questions", the concerning part seems to be the answers she came up with.”
Sometimes, the answers to the questions are sadly not the answers you wanted or expected.
It shatters the world.
“There are degrees to both hate and bigotry, but even moderate bigotry is quite appalling on its own.”
Words aren’t violence.