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@phoenix ugh.. I mean i dont think the vaccines are needed with delta pretty much making them useless. But since they post virtually 0 risk I see no reason not to, just in case the latest data is wrong.
𝚜𝚎𝚕𝚎𝚊 
Does the data really point to that vaccines are "useless" thou?
Just asking
The data on anything related to COVID is too new to ever make any real absolute assertions. But yea recent data suggests the patterns we thought we saw suggesting limited protection were post hoc procter hoc and in fact the viral load of people who are vaccinated is exactly the same with delta as unavaccinated.
@freemo @selea @phoenix The swiss scientific Covid task force just announced that, according to their data, the vaccine *does* hinder transmission. By 95% just after the vaccination, going down to 66% 6 months later. The main reason they gave was that vaccinated people are less likely to contract the virus if exposed to it.
Caveat: This is specific to Biontech and Moderna.
@freemo @selea @phoenix The study has been reviewed, but not yet publicised, so I can't help you there. I trust that you'll read it carefully and unbiased once it's available in full.
I should point out, though, that reality seems to agree: Infection numbers in Switzerland are rising considerably slower than last year in spite of Delta and in spite of the countermeasures being milder. Hospitalisations even (much) more so.
@p2501
The problem with that inference is that you could just as easily explain it as people having built natural immunity to delta via previous infections (even asymptomatic ones). This is why direct evidence (like viral loads) trumps any evidence based off of patterns in the population
And yes since i suggest people get vaccinated and at the same time am saying that the vaccine appears useless against delta, this would suggest i am approaching it in an unbias way
@selea @phoenix
@freemo @selea @phoenix Unlikely. According to several antibody studies, not nearly enough people got in contact with the actual virus to explain the slow down.
Also: The incidence numbers are much higher among unvaccinated than among vaccinated.
Yes, I know it sounds circumstantial. But medicine isn't an exact science. That's not meant as an insult. That's just a fact.
@freemo @selea @phoenix Yes, as I said, it's just circumstantial evidence. Like most things in medicine.
For instance: There is so far no definite evidence that higher viral load leads to higher infectiousness. 😉 It likely does, though.
Well, anyway, I think this went on for long enough. Agree to disagree?
@freemo @selea @phoenix As I said, the main reason given was that vaccinated people are less likely to contract the virus in the first place. Viral load is not the only factor in play.