Is there anyone out there who can come up with a coherent explanation of why Britain is so critically short of some fruit and veg that supermarkets are imposing rationing and yet from all the photos I have seen, and my own personal experience here in Luxembourg, there are absolutely no such shortages in other countries in northern Europe, yet according to the mainstream media in Britain, it's due to absolutely anything their imaginative reporters can dream up EXCEPT Brexit. It rather seems to me that if France, on Britain's doorstep, has absolutely no shortage whatsoever and Britain is rationing, that blaming the weather in Morocco or elsewhere is an exercise in gaslighting rather than in factual reporting.
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@Paulos_the_fog If it were brexit then wouldnt it be common in other non-EU countries? Yet as far as I know other non-EU countries have no problem with food shortages.
Not sure i agree, brexit was certainly mismanaged and a cluster fuck from both the torries and labour, but the principle of not promoting global centralized governance was the right choice in principle.
@freemo @Paulos_the_fog enjoy your turnips.
@freemo @Paulos_the_fog and as I said, the UK Government is incompetent and has been for at least five Prime Ministers. That's why we have Brexit and that's why vegetables have become an unattainable luxury for most people who live in the UK. It's only going to get worse.
Yes, and i said as much myself, id also break up the UK, so we agree in that regard.
@freemo @Paulos_the_fog I'd never say I want to break up the UK. The future of the UK isn't part of the framing atall. Scottish independence is about Scotland and our future. The idea of the UK already feels quite abstract and is certainly very remote.
Sure, and I can understand that. But I wasnt implying **you** wanted to break up the UK.. I am stating that **I** would support breaking up the UK, just as I support breaking up the EU.
@freemo @Paulos_the_fog how would you break up the UK? Nations? Regions? City States?
Similar to what I would do for the USA... Instead of having a structure where national government overrules local governments/regions inverse that where the local regions laws and rules take precedence over national. The role of the larger bodies therefore is to set up voluntary alliances local governments can opt into or out of if they meet certain requirements and get certain benefits.
This way the UK in its current form doesnt exist and instead it becomes a loose coalition of countless initiatives that local governments can opt-into or not.
Its actually the same fundemental idea as what the USA was in the early days where state rights took precendence over national laws and states could choose to adopt laws or not and receive benefits if they do.
A practical example is how laws were passed that set a drinking age in the USA. Basically states got together and agreed to pay a tax and make laws to set drinking age and in return those states that did so agreed to share the tax money to create interstate highways. It was totally opt-in but the benefit of organizing in this way was so high that virtually all states adopted the law.
Of course there are many civil rights issues in early america, so im not suggesting the whole kit and caboodle be adopted as a good framework. But the general idea of local-first government is a good example of how it could work.
@freemo @CloudyMrs @Paulos_the_fog global centralized government? The EU does no such thing. The UK is the most centralized and least democratic state in Europe. The EU is a association of member states that act collectively in their common interest, each of which can leave without permission, in contrast w UK "members". Do let us know which jointly agreed laws oppressed you.
First off i never said i support the UK either, i woukd break up the UK the same way i would break up the UK.
Secondly i dont recall stating any particular EU law oppressed me. Also try discussing in a more mature tone, you are coming across as if your a step away from being rude simply because someone has a different opinion than you, id imagine your better than that.
@freemo @CloudyMrs @Paulos_the_fog the canard about centralized govt is just that, a canard.
The EU has the largest and best, and best governed, free trade zone in the world. Achieved without centralized govt.
https://fsi.stanford.edu/events/why-europe%E2%80%99s-single-market-surpassed-america%E2%80%99s
In favour of breaking up the US too?
Obviously when i say centralized government i mean large governing bodies that govern large portions of the planet, with a preference for small local governments. I beleive that to be thr case no matter how well governed it may be at the current moment.
Yes as an american citizen i likewise support state rights over national rights and feel the us shoukd be broken up or at a minimum the centralization of power in the national govt curtailed or eliminated (as do many americans btw).
Oh and thank you for changing your tone to a more respectful one, it was noticed and appreciated.
@freemo @CloudyMrs @Paulos_the_fog I recommend you inform yourself about the Trilogue process. Good luck with the break-up of the US.
FWIW many Europeans are tired of American antagonism to the EU, a great deal of which is based on resentment of it being to stand up the US in matters of trade. Trump's appointee Mick Mulvaney eg, was perfectly clear about this: US would get a better deal if it could bully smaller countries. Not going to happen.
> I recommend you inform yourself about the Trilogue process. Good luck with the break-up of the US.
I am very well aware of what the Trilogue process is. Likewise I'd like to suggest you try a more mature debating style, it is likely to allow your conversations to be more productive.
For example instead of saying "I recommend you inform yourself about the Trilogue process" Which is condescending and implies, without any basis, that i must be ignorant on what that is you try something more like "Are you familiar with the Trilogue process, if not check it out it might change your opinion"... There is very clear tone in how you speak that is very childish and antagonistic and it isnt doing you any favors.
> FWIW many Europeans are tired of American antagonism to the EU, a great deal of which is based on resentment of it being to stand up the US in matters of trade. Trump's appointee Mick Mulvaney eg, was perfectly clear about this: US would get a better deal if it could bully smaller countries. Not going to happen.
Well it already did happen, brexit happened. Not sure if it will happen again but other countries have their own brexit support going as well that may in the coming years follow the same pattern as the UK (or perhaps not). Its a growing movement in the netherlands for example (called Nexit there).
That said I think its a fair concern that large abusive countries like the USA cause the formation of other large entities (like the EU) that themselves have the potential to devolve into abusive entities. As I said I'd be happy to reduce the powers of the EU and USA both.
That said keep in mind im only against globalized (or at least large) bodies of governance. There are ways to organize and stand up against the USA that doesnt require a governing body that resembles the EU.
@freemo @CloudyMrs @Paulos_the_fog
remarkable that you claim to be informed about the Trilogue process but still make a completely baseless assertion about centralized governance in the EU.
As for other ways to resist bullying by large countries, no doubt you'll be able to furnish some examples.
Meanwhile, we can see which way Ukraine is voting on this.
You could try asking for elaboration on what I meant by centralization. That would be much more productive than this strutting around your doing.
@freemo @Paulos_the_fog Brexit wouldn't have happened in the first place if the UK Government was in any way competent. Brexit is a symptom of incompetence and incompetence continues to compound Brexit.