Another interesting fact about #Israel ... There is no historical evidence that a kingdom of Israel in anctient times **ever** actually existed. In fact most non-religious scholars feel that it either didnt exist or at the very least the writings about it were first written long long after it may have existed. This is evident because of countless anachronisms that we know couldnt be historically accurate (as they didnt exist yet for the time period)... so scholars have been able to reasonably conclude the account in the bible was in all likelihood made up at a later time.
In short, #Israel 's entire claim of it being an "ancient ancestral land" is based entirely on the bible and not accepted as historical fact by historians...
Yet again people kill for their gods, gods who tell them the first rule is not to kill.
🇳🇱
@freemo@qoto.org
@freemo schon mal an der klagemauer gewesen??
@rhertle Yes I've been to the western wall.
@freemo how about flavius josephus?
@rhertle What about him?
@freemo does He not testify jews living as a Statement in Israel?
@rhertle He lived 800 years after the fall of israel, assuming israel existed at all... So im not sure anything he says matters much.
@freemo Tacitus wrote 100 years later about Juda under Pilates...
@rhertle if he had evidence then please link to it.
@freemo Tacitus, annales 15,44
Oh you meant Judae ... ok what about it, Judae isnt Israel, it was part of rome.
@freemo occupied part of Rome, which should have been called palistine? Why judaea?
@rhertle It was named judae after a biblical reference.. the reason it wasnt called palestine or Israel is because it was neither of those at the time, it was Judae.
@freemo
How about this as a source?
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel-Dan-Inschrift
@rhertle A rock in the sand with the phrase "house of david" on it tht was dated and found to be carved 60 to 180 years AFTER the bible claims the house of david ended.
Sorry even most historians find that question and think that phrase is more likely part of a mythos than actual evidence.. it just doesnt add up.
@freemo why do you think, that it dates as you say, when the soil layer where it was found, dates to somewhere 800 bc?
@rhertle Off hand I dont know how they dated it exactly... but that is the general range of dates accepted by historians.. and many historians discount the existance of such a kingdom... so im willing to accept the date range and skepticism as the reasons all add up based on what facts I know and the scientific community accepts (at least many of them, its hardly a settled subject).
That said if you think the dating was wrong im happy to hear the evidence.
@freemo
The evidence is quoted on Wikipedia. As the soil layers there are described and dated and sources are given in the Literatur reference.
@rhertle ahh ok good find then.. I suspect the range in dates accounts for any reasonable error in that process.
Regardless the dates put everything in question, and even if the dates lined up someone writing "house of david" on a block of stone is pretty weak evidence of anything other than the fact that whoever wrote the scrolls either also carved the stone, or inspired people to beleive the mythos and later carved the stone as worshipers or beleivers in the myth written in scrolls.
Obviously if there was more context and evidence it might make compelling evidence... but as is its very weak and easily dismissed.
@freemo
Ok, i disagree. I find it Hard evidence and very unlikely someone doug down the encarved stone in an exact layer - and did not leave a remarkable digging trace after all!
Anyway, was nice hearing your point of view! Have a good day!
@rhertle wait what? No one said anything about digging or traces? Somewhere along the line it seems you misunderstood what i said.
@freemo
The scrollt date far later than the stone..
Huh? how do you know what date the scroll is, the scroll probably doesnt even exist anymore.
Obviously the **modern** version of the scroll wasnt written yet... and the earliest version of the scrolls also didnt exist yet. But to assert that we have the earliest version that was ever written just doesnt make sense. Likely there are earlier scrolls written of most things that go back well before the versions we physically find and are simply lost to time.
No one knows when the very first version was written.. all we know is random snapshots of versions at different points in time with little way to know how many iterations it had went through before then.
@freemo
Yes, and that says about as much as the conclusion to the question if there was a chair on the dark side of the moon. It is humiliating that we can hardly know anything for sure. War we can do, is figuring out the most reliable way of understanding. If your basic supposition is that someone back in history tried to lie and thus change Our view - that may be your view!
Maybe you personally know jewish people who are liars?
@rhertle Thats kinda the point though right... like a single piece of stone with a phrase on it is such weak evidence it really doesnt tell you much.
that said see this response, I was incorrect:
@freemo
I do admire your honesty and integrity. Thanx for that!
