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Queer doesnt exist, its just a made up word with no meaning or utility.
Trans isnt a sexual orientation so it doesnt belong along side other orientations.
Therefore from now on I think im going to just refer to it as "LGB" which ill use for discussions about orientation. It might make sense to do "LGBP" to include pansexuals/poly people, as that too describes orientation.
Then maybe "TICN" for gender expression (Trans, Intersex, Crossdresser, and Nonbinary).
I think ill just start dropping these in conversations and use each distinctly different. The LGBTQ+ designation never really made much sense.
Then again maybe jsut "non-cis" and "non-straight" might just be more straight forward. But less likely to engage in useful conversation.
[witchzard]
@freemo And crossdresser has nothing to do with trans, intersex, or non-binary. This is a completely different matter and doesn't belong here.
As said in another post: please stop!
> This is a completely different matter and doesn't belong here.
I think these people are well fit in the category "people who are doing gender non-conforming stuff", but whatever.
@freemo
Like i predicted - people feel not very comfy with your brand new typesystem 😀
I really don't understand what was the point of reinventing the terminology except purely technical curiosity like "how to categorize queer folks more effectively".
What sex you are attracted to has **nothing** to do with gender, conforming or otherwise.
> Like i predicted - people feel not very comfy with your brand new typesystem 😀
Yes we both predicted that, and as I said before I care very little for if someone doesnt like it, I do care about WHY and will consider that for any changes that might apply.
> I really don't understand what was the point of reinventing the terminology except purely technical curiosity like "how to categorize queer folks more effectively".
Because the current one is uselessly broad and doesnt even have a common theme let alone utility. In almost every case that it is used it is a poor term for the intended meaning as people rarely talk about gender ans sexual orientation as if they were one thing (since they arent, they are barely related).
> What sex you are attracted to has **nothing** to do with gender, conforming or otherwise.
> And crossdresser has nothing to do with trans, intersex, or non-binary.
^
I replied to this thing, i personally think putting drags/crossdressers in the same subcategory with trans and nonbinary is ok.
> I do care about WHY
I feel i know exactly why but also i feel i won't be able to explain it correctly, it's more about emotional reactions than the raw logic.
I replied to this thing, i personally think putting drags/crossdressers in the same subcategory with trans and nonbinary is ok.
Yea the consensus, which I agreed with, is crossdresser belongs but intersex might not.
I feel i know exactly why but also i feel i won’t be able to explain it correctly, it’s more about emotional reactions than the raw logic.
Trying to account for an emotional reaction, particularly if it is counter to the reality/facts is not a direction I have any desire to go down. No matter what you pick some people will be upset others wont. For example many feel Queer is an offensive term and as such LGBTQ would be a derogatory term by extension if we used emotional pleas.
I always was a bit confused about this “feelings vs reality” narrative. The thoughts and state of other people’s minds are also a facts of reality, they’re is connected to it, they’re is affecting it and they could be predicted, hence it’s better not to ignore them as well as any other facts of reality. Especially if you are trying to figure out why people are rejecting your ideas and how to overcome this issue.
No one is saying their feelings arent true, only that feelings dont trump facts. If someone says “The sky is blue” and someone gets upset at you because its against their culture where they were taught the sky is yellow. Like sure it may be a fact that you are upset, but doesnt change the color of the sky either.
Honestly, i have no strong opinion in this regard, never talked to a person thinking that the term “queer” is offensive 😀
I am also fully okay with it, but okay, i got it.
You and me both are ok with it. But it started as a derogatory term and many people still feel that is the case. If you lookup advocacy groups (such as the definition i provided you from one earlier) they state this explicitly.
Sure, I am not claiming their feelings shouldnt be acknowledged. only that one shouldnt modify the facts to appease those feelings. You address it by reassuring them you dont have evil intent, that you care about them... but you dont placate it by changing the facts to avoid their emotional response
I'm more care not only "the feelings" directly but about how those feelings will affect my ability to get my (or your) point across, convince people to believe in the things i think are facts.
For example, if you show this thread to normie lgbtq people or allies, 90% of them will say we both are disconnected from reality edgelord lunatics, they won't even think about arguments in a good faith which make them useless.
I’m more care not only “the feelings” directly but about how those feelings will affect my ability to get my (or your) point across, convince people to believe in the things i think are facts.
This is where we differ. Each person engaged in a conversation has a personal obligation to ensure that they keep their emotions in check and engage with good-faith. If someone fails to do that it isnt the speakers responsibility to manage the readers emotions, it is their. If those emotions make them unable to engage faithfully then thats on them. While we should have compassion and let them know we care and show our good intent accurately it is not a speakers responsibility to bear the burden of an entire communities potential emotional responses and to refine their speech to “walk on eggshells” as the saying goes.
For example, if you show this thread to normie lgbtq people or allies, 90% of them will say we both are disconnected from reality edgelord lunatics, they won’t even think about arguments in a good faith which make them useless.
While is a perfect example of how they are acting improperly and in bad faith without bothering to understand the reality. That is on them, and while I hope they will reflect and act in a more mature way, if they dont i am more than happy to have them block me and disapear as I have little interest in engaging with anyone who lacks emotional maturity.
@lonelyowl13 You didnt start anything, your comments are welcome, appreciated, and encouraged in the future.
Also I agree, while the fediis more volatile than most I generally find most LGBT people are quite easy and agreeable to deal with. Sadly the toxic ones on this network are not representative of the community.
> Trying to account for an emotional reaction, particularly if it is counter to the reality/facts is not a direction I have any desire to go down.
I always was a bit confused about this "feelings vs reality" narrative. The thoughts and state of other people's minds are also a facts of reality, they're is connected to it, they're is affecting it and they could be predicted, hence it's better not to ignore them as well as any other facts of reality. Especially if you are trying to figure out why people are rejecting your ideas and how to overcome this issue.
> For example many feel Queer is an offensive term
Honestly, i have no strong opinion in this regard, never talked to a person thinking that the term "queer" is offensive 😀
I am also fully okay with it, but okay, i got it.
...
I also think we care about slightly different things here, i care most about being well (and easily) understood, and you care most about proper categorization.