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Holy fuck how am I just hearing about this....
Apparently a black man (not sure if his race was relevant) was kicked out of an ambulance mid ride because he couldnt breath an in a panic he tried to get to the oxygen and the EMT was offended by this and kicked him out of the ambulance mid ride... Cops arrived to get him out of the ambulance. In the end he died.
How are we not rioting over this yet we did over george floyd? Seriously... this deserves all the same outrage, more! Oh right, Trump isnt president, Biden is, that might be bad for the election, lets not huh? Liberals only hate the injustice when its in their favor I guess....
George floyd deserved outrage, this deserves outrage.
@freemo how exactly a criminal drug user (who died from OD) deserved outrage? if only by showing how corrupt judge and whole system are, that caved in to "mostly peaceful" activists, who demanded so called justice for a cop simply doing his job, but outrage was targeted toward police and that one police man with wrong skin color
> how exactly a criminal drug user (who died from OD) deserved outrage?
Because a cop strangled him to death and remain choking his lifeless body for several minutes after he was dead... yup, certainly deserves outrage.
In fact even if he somehow managed to survive he deserved the exact same level of outrage.
> f only by showing how corrupt judge and whole system are, that caved in to "mostly peaceful" activists, who demanded so called justice for a cop simply doing his job, but outrage was targeted toward police and that one police man with wrong skin color
Nope
> Because a cop strangled him to death and remain choking his lifeless body for several minutes after he was dead… yup, certainly deserves outrage.
That's not what happened, and now there is whole documentary about it
short interview with investigative journalist: https://youtu.be/Nj5CZWj-SS0
full documentary: https://youtu.be/eFPi3EigjFA
I mean, I hate corrupted police and don't wanna deal with all of them at all if I have chance (and yes, don't talk to police [w/out lawyer], that is being told even by former police officers), but blame them for every fault of every OD'd criminal - that's too much. I hope you will at least consider skimming over almost 2 hour documentary and probably change mind if documentary is compelling enough to do so
@AncientGood You seemed to completely ignore what i said and then just flapping your gums arguing against something I didnt even say. I am happy to debate you, but you need to make some effort at actually understanding what I say before you disagree iwth it or else your just wasting my time.
AS I said before, if him ODing as the underlying cause is literally not remotely relevant to the morality of the situation. He sat on his neck so he couldnt breath, evne if he then ODed (not due to the strangling) the cop still remained strangling a lifeless body for a very long time.
Your argument is idiotic because it assumes the cause of death is remotely related to the outrage... it isnt. The fact that a man was choked while dying (of any cause) and continued to be choked when dead is what matters, and that remains true OD or not.
You said
> Because a cop strangled him to death and remain choking his lifeless body
I said
> That's not what happened
and somehow I am flapping my gums (by typing, I guess?) and not even trying to understand what you said? Some police practices are shit, but what you gonna do if some criminal under influence resists arrest? let him go and let him kill someone else?
@AncientGood You realize when you quote someone and leave out the one part that proves you wrong, you dont look smart, and you wont trick people.
The sentance I said that you left out that makes your response disconnected with mine was this very important sentance:
> In fact even if he somehow managed to survive he deserved the exact same level of outrage.
So now all you showed is not only did you argue against a different point than I made, but you proved it was intentional, twice.
> and somehow I am flapping my gums (by typing, I guess?) and not even trying to understand what you said?
Yes, both because you responded to a different argument than I made, and then when you quoted me left out the only sentence that made that clear.
@freemo oh, I see now that part I missed, thank you for pointing - let me assure that wasn't intentional, just English not being first language sometimes plays jokes with me
If not his death, what else could provoke outrage? If he miraculously survived, it would be yet another case of police work - called for crime in progress, arrest, jail, nothing to call home about
Am I understanding you correctly this time, that police doing their job with techniques they were trained in case of resisting criminal [which also approved by w/e authority approves methods and protocols], in any case deserve riots or something unless they .. what exactly? Ambulance was called in less than a minute when national hero George Floyd showed problems with breathing, and yet he kept resisting and needed a restrain. What to do in this case? Let criminal go and hurt someone else?
It seems like another meaning is slipping from me
> oh, I see now that part I missed, thank you for pointing - let me assure that wasn't intentional, just English not being first language sometimes plays jokes with me
I appreciate you saying this rather than digging in. My apologies for my tone as it did seem intentional, or at the very least it is usually intention on the internet. I am legitimately in the wrong for assuming that was the case with you rather than giving you the benefit of the doubt. I will admit your tone about talking about a person suffering with drug addiction gave me a very negative impression of the quality of your character. And while that statement is problematic still I did lean to heavily into that in my tone.
> If not his death, what else could provoke outrage? If he miraculously survived, it would be yet another case of police work - called for crime in progress, arrest, jail, nothing to call home about
Becase how a person acts based on what they perceive is what tells you about their character, not if they get lucky with the consequences or not. If someone shoots at an innocent person trying to kill them they arent a better person if they happen to miss.
The outrage comes from the absolutely deplorable quality of character of the police in handling these situations, the outcome just piles remorse on top of that. Specifically in floyds case, the man choked him well beyond compliance to the point the man appeared dead, to the point people asked if he was dead, and even after people started seeing he was dead he went on to be choked for a very long time rather than giving him medical attention.
Him being dead or not, caused by drugs or not, doesnt change the quality of the character of those cops, the fact that those cops clearly were ok with his death, even wanted his death. Him being easier to kill because of drugs really doesnt exonerate the cops in the least. In fact it has no relevance at all to the morality of the situation.
People cant tell the future, the morality of your actions is the same regardless of if you get lucky with things turn out or not.
To be clear and put numbers onto it. After George Floyd died and people started screaming he was dead, the police continued to choke the man for over nine minutes.
That alone is all that needs to be said as to why outrage is deserved. Full stop.
> ok, let's agree on the fact that police needs real reform and have another police, so they could investigate each other's misbehavior and not covering every situation like "we investigated ourselves and concluded that we did nothing wrong". Police should be held to way higher standards than regular people, and corruption/unlawful behavior should result at least triple punishment
while the last part of triple punishment deserves some debate (not because i disagree but just because its not nuanced enough). The rest I agree with in principle.
I would argue polie should just not have qualified immunity anymore, and in exchange for that we pay them as much as we need to to hire them to put their lives at risk. I am ok paying them MORE if they are actually held accountable.
> but I disagree with this, that not what happened, nobody chocked Floyd, quite the opposite, there is footage that they tried to help him before even ambulance arrived, the famous viral video when cop was kneeling on the neck - it's just wrong perspective of this particular video, body cam showed that cop was holding his knee on shoulder blade which is not a chocking hazard, but they decided to build wrong narrative and didn't bring this footage
Even if we take away the term choking from the equation to give you the benefit of the doubt there.. doesnt matter. After the moment he was clearly lifeless and people said he was looked dead on camera begging them to help him. from that moment they still "pinned him down" for 9 more minute while he lay there dead/lifeless/unconscious. The fact that after 9 minutes of him being dead they finally decided to "help" him is too little too late.
I got this link sent to me from someone I don't suspect of conspiracy theories a while ago:
https://www.thefallofminneapolis.com/
presenting a very different picture of the situation,
i.e., that the Chauvinists were sacrificed to an enraged public.
How would one even start to fact-check this?
I don't _want_ to believe it.
@freemo ok, let's agree on the fact that police needs real reform and have another police, so they could investigate each other's misbehavior and not covering every situation like "we investigated ourselves and concluded that we did nothing wrong". Police should be held to way higher standards than regular people, and corruption/unlawful behavior should result at least triple punishment
> the police continued to choke the man for over nine minutes
but I disagree with this, that not what happened, nobody chocked Floyd, quite the opposite, there is footage that they tried to help him before even ambulance arrived, the famous viral video when cop was kneeling on the neck - it's just wrong perspective of this particular video, body cam showed that cop was holding his knee on shoulder blade which is not a chocking hazard, but they decided to build wrong narrative and didn't bring this footage
evidence shows that cops did everything according instructions and regulations