This is very confusing because Tories are extremists, trying to undermine the values of our society by privatising everything including the NHS.
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@jtb I dont agree much with the torries but if one thing is clear its that the brits experiments with governments trying to run stuff is that private business does it better and cheaper when regulations on such business are properly designed.
Making NHS public was and is a disaster, it needs to end.
@freemo It wasn't a disaster, it was a good system. It is still better than the USA where they let you get sick so they can charge you for treatment. And the pandemic response was poor in the USA because there was no national coordinated response.
At the moment it is being undermind by the Tories with their private finance initiatives (which were invented by the Tories) making NHS pay high interest rates to private banks.
@jtb it was never a good system. And comparing it to america, which is different in vastly different ways than simply being private (for example a lack of single payer healthcare) is intellectually dishonest to say the least.
@freemo What a cheek!
Nothing rude about it. Ideas dont need to be respected, people do. Claiming an idea is intellectually dishonest is not rude or insulting to the individual and entierly appropriate. Now if i called you stupid (which I am not and did not) that would be different.
@freemo Ideas can't be dishonest. Only people can be dishonest.
Intellectual dishonest ideas are ideas intended to make a point known to be false. If the idea is constructed to specifically avoid the truth in order to sell a specific narrative, then the idea is intellectually dishonest.
People who are intellectually dishonest tend to make intellectually dishonest claims.If an idea serves the purpose of intellectually dishonest people, then the idea is intellectually dishonest by extension. When adopted by people who are not themselves intellectually dishonest then the idea remains intellectually dishonest.
But hey if you insist on claiming you are a dishonest person despite the fact that I **explicitly** stated otherwise, go for it, thats all you.
> I'll tell you a dishonest idea then
Ok
> It wasn't, and it isn't [a disaster]
Agreed, that is an intellectually dishonest idea.
But in all seriousness, now your just repeating yourself. Yes I heard you claim that the first time. It was incorrect then, and it still is. Not sure why repeating this is useful however.
@freemo Because it shows you are guilty of hypocrisy. And I am not sure how you stating your opinion as fact without adding anything to justify it is useful either.
I didnt criticise you for not backing up your opinions, i criticised you for repeating yourself without adding new information.
All statements of what is fact is an opinion about what is a fact and what is not. The more evidince you provide the more convincing that opinion may to others that jt is correct. But its still an opinion, and nothing wrong with that. Generally people state opinions as fact when it is an opinion about so ething being a fact, as we are doing.
@freemo You criticised me for being dishonest (or as you put it, expressing a dishonest idea) and I showed that this was hypocrisy because your idea that the NHS was a disaster was dishonest, which you then admitted it was, but persisted that I was wrong to contradict it. But I live in England and I have used the NHS as have most of my family, that's how I know it is not a disaster. How do you know it is?
Nope you got a lot of thi gs backwards. First off you thinking thr NHS did a great job, just like me thinking it didnt is **not** the part i called intellectually dishonest. I did say your attempt to use the USA as evidence of your assertion that public is better than private was the part that was intellectually dishonest.
Second when did i say my argument was intellectually dishonest? That never happened.
Oh and to answer your question... I have lived in almost every major country in my life, that includes the UK. I am uniquely equiped witb making the determination because i have expierenced the healthcare of ~20 to 30 different countries (depending on how you count it) in my lifetime.
@freemo I didn't say the NHS did a great job, and I didn't say that was the part which you said was intellectually dishonest (which of course you couldn't because I didn't say it).
Glad you agree then i gurss
@freemo No, wrong again.
Haha that was amusing, thanks.
@freemo I'll tell you a dishonest idea then: that the NHS was a disaster. It wasn't, and it isn't, and it would be better if the Tories were not sabotaging it.