We worry about providing Universal Basic Income because people might stop working, but here's a thought: maybe, just maybe, with a little financial security, people might actually pursue work they truly choose rather than work to just not die. Imagine that world for a moment.

@scottsantens

As someone who is strongly against UBI, and strongly supportive of welfare I can earnestly say people simply not working is not at all the reason I (or most people against UBI in my opinion) are against it.

The reason i am against it is because it causes people more harm than good. People who are in a position where they need assistance need to be given the tools to get out of their situation, and the help to get there needs to be conditional on this (and we should be spending the money that goes with that). Financial assistance should be conditional with mandatory job training or mental health therapy needed to help someone succeed, not just money.

In fact when there are underlying bad habits, as can often be the case, it is possible money can even make a persons condition worse and cause them to sleep farther into poverty.

@freemo [hachyderm censors blob] problem is that administrators tend to not have a local understanding of which tools the person needs. there are many stories on BBC of british orgs going to africa to give government determined handouts only to realize nobody there has supply for gas ovens or the town wanted a post office and shoes and they tried to dig another well

@icedquinn

Absolutely. There is no doubt that actually providing real assistance is a more nuanced and complex thing to do than just piling a bunch of paper bills on someone.

But something that is simple, that doesnt fix the problem (and in fact makes it worse) is not a good argument for the simpler approach. Solving problems for real takes more effort and nuance, but since it actually stands a chance of solving problems (and hopefully with improvement more so over time) its still the way to go.

This is a big problem with society in almost everything, they deny things simply due to complexity in excahange for something simple that isnt a solution at all.

@freemo typically the alternative to "piling bills" is the gift card/ commmunism approach. which is summed up by an episode of MASH where logistics says they can give out a pizza oven if you scratch out the field and write pizza on it, but can't give out what they were actually requesting for the field unit

@icedquinn No, I dont care if people get cash for food or a "gift card". its not about if they get the money or not, its about the conditions placed on that money. We will give you money (in whatever form, including cash) but only if you go to free job training, or go to university, or go to a trade school, or go to a psychiatrist. You do the things you need to do to ensure you are less likely to need welfare in the future, and then youll get whatever resources you need.