/
> Nothing can be the same from now and that means a massive effort to build a better, socially and economically just, and ecologically safe future.

Mainstream political leaders call for economic growth but we know that growth only makes the situation worse. They distract by calls that point to enemies beyond our shores, or among the peoples that live here. They may nod to sustainability but only halfheartedly, with proposals that will address only part of the problem.
/Cont'd

#GDP #degrowth

/
Getting Real sets out an alternative, a serious one. The election is an opportunity to share its ideas, because every time a leader announces a new policy, we can point to what the alternative might be, using the example of the detail in Getting Real. Will you do that?

Getting Real, though, isn’t just for the election. Its time will come when the new government is manifestly failing, as it will, on multiple criteria. Will you help throw the lifeline when the time comes?

Please share thread

@degrowthuk
Do you mind if I'm a bit honest about 1st impressions / about the info / what I think about Getting Real?

@freeschool
No, so long as any criticism is constructive.

@degrowthuk A quick-look opinion after reading a bit what is there (so help me if I'm wrong):

█ 1 █ The main details of your alternative / the alternative is actually inside a PDF doc, which is down the page a bit as a link?
► (true / false)

That is the #1 thing at the moment. Problematic if true as I and other people *probably* went to the site in first place expecting to see that info but have to actually find a link down the page within that site and first download it, open it in external reader and then read more (and then come back to site) - so before it's even clear of the details, some extra finding work?!

You might name things a bit but if really it's mostly in PDF and not much of a decent summary on front page, then that's measurably too shallow and the PDF too deep / time-consuming / hidden almost.

================
█ THE REST BELOW IS MIXED RANT BUT shorter version is the first lines of each paragraph
...and obviously we're here to talk / solve things so will not be perfect. █

█ Questions are marked with ? which you reply please - all of them. CTRL-F to find and answered in reply. █
================

█ 2 █ Is this whole idea something more than just pointing to the idea?

So it's not really action but more pointing to what Gov should / could do?

I have my mixed opinion but I can't escape "it's like saying to crocodiles don't eat meat any more" (don't eat us for a living professionally) or "don't abuse us and get paid, take much less money and risk the economy in the name of equality or X,Y, Z which has been said to you before" ?
...hmm - why should they or what makes you think they would? (Would you give up power as a parent or whatever authority, they need to maintain regardless else start to losei t all since their whole base is relying on these things - it's not a fucking accident, it's by design!).

And certainly without force (or without some leverage or threat (like reducing / obstructing profits / withdrawing our labor etc / historically proven examples) it's hardly logical to accept advice... and even then they might make things worse / have done so to tighten things stronger. (So they are not the right people to talk to at all most of the time since it's their job to rule us).

❓ Why should those that join stop doing x,y,z when those most people clearly don't believe / already didn't want / already signed up to something else?

Most do things for money (as any other job sometimes)... so needs more than just saying "here's a good policy they could take on"....

Those professionally paid people are in a structure that reinforces loyalty in that structure/ pays for professional silence as contract / lying work / etc etc (ok not everyone but I'm trying to say "they or those above them have it 'very locked' and systematically near-0 chance of change, not 0% chance but not even 10% perhaps unless people literally risk something like rocking the whole boat - unfortunately as that may be, that's real - as unions, federations or coalitions have proven)

► (agree / disagree mostly to the above?)

What makes you think your "policy" is suddenly going to be actually chosen or even eventually (*unless* it giving them similar results of controlled crisis / devaluation more leverage etc?) ! ?

█ 2A █ What it is you want from people?

Can you list it... here is some of it I assume (perhaps incorrectly):

▲- you want people to endorse / say they support your plan... (there is a web page with a form they fill in / you want to use that as list of testimony / add credit to this manifesto / accumulate mass)
▲ - to get maybe a bit of talk here (but not much more?)
▲- not sure what else, please add

Again the "asking a crocodile" or the professional state-backed people is a little naive it seems (historically speaking) though don't question your heart, just they are not really the ones to change as much as we are... it's perhaps the prey as well or more changeably so, rather than near-0 chance with self-titled governments. (which royalty would almost put down their crown / be less cruel and let authority / power be taken over or reduced?)

▲ SUMMARY ▲
"GETTING REAL" OK BUT...
if it's mostly just a list of degrowth / eco stuff to advise people that "this could happen" instead then it's maybe more virtue-signalling than actual action - then it's a few pages and manifesto list for a potential movement by pointing (perhaps assuming they don't know) or asking those others who are frankly proven already as futile to ask again / beg again while NHS crumbles for 100th time and yachts are bought / jets and helicopters are normal taxi's for some.

If you have any doubt please say in reply "I believe they can turn around 180deg and they will endanger their own positions in the economy of control - and even exchange for it for maybe ecology reasons" and I'll consider this fairly clear.

Ask crocodiles BUT NO don't hope too much or put too much energy there (maybe you're not so that's ok).

█ 3 █ It's not clear what the question "Will you do that?" means in your send outs, so yes "we can point to what the alternative might be".... and then what... ?

The quoted parts above from a message like: https://mstdn.social/@degrowthuk/112557266188411912)

Thanks , remember those that care write!

AND

- it's their job to fail (not to serve us but serve themselves)...

- deliberate-design like planned obsolescence is (and how we buy it)

- toxic waste dumps behind closed doors etc etc is all part of that cycle...

so then isn't it a bit limited to ask them? (and while we are paying for it / even buying into it even if it's not all but mostly?)

@freeschool Thanks for your thoughts.
Toot is too long to respond to here but we'll try to add some of the Q and A to the FAQ.
But briefly,
Yes you have to dig into the detail of the report: we could do with some more explainer posts, infographics, images, of course, but there's no alternative to reading the report.
The goal is to make available those alternative policy ideas as a collection of degrowth-aware proposals for the UK. We don't expect them to be adopted en masse but /cont'd.

@freeschool
/by sharing and promoting them we hope that some will be borrowed and find there way into other platforms, particularly on the green left and by regioniactors.
We don't have a big movement, money, think tanks, etc. so the strategy is to try and influence the influencers.
Perhaps most importantly it is a demonstration that a coherent policy approach, based on degrowth ideas, is feasible.
Finally, of course there are vested interests and incentives: that's the reality we face./contd