So yesterday Russia shot down a commercial airliner and intentionally destroyed a major undersea power connection between Finland and Estonia, in case you're wondering if Russian military aggression is limited to Ukraine.
so, the US invaded Iraq arguing a pack of lies as justification, killing millions of innocent Iraqis because the US regime didn't like their ruler. and their oil - wanted the oil.
the US is a predator nation, unprecedented in world history.
(jgg)
@StopTheSweepsPDX @petergleick
Euh... I totally opposed to US invasion of Irak, but your tooth is a total offtopic here.
Yeah, Irak invasion had not nearly enough justification, and Putin has given much more reasons for retaliation than Hussein did. But what are you arguing for? A NATO invasion of Russia?
About precedents: obviously, you are not a history major.
@StopTheSweepsPDX @petergleick
Before the invasion of Ukraine, there was talking of dissolving or reforming NATO.
Nowadays, it is bigger than ever, and growing.
If Russian behaviour with their neighbours were not so terrible, NATO wouldn't even exist.
The reason Ukraine tried NATO membership before the invasion was because they know very well what Russia have done in the past, and how much Putin values honor, treaties and diplomacy.
Nobody dissolves a military alliance when someone is invading his neighbours. What kind of idiots do you think Europeans are?
@jgg @petergleick Seems to be a Russian disinformation account, not worth engaging - report and move on :)
@StopTheSweepsPDX @jgg @petergleick
As I recall, it wasn't NATO membership, but agreement with EU.
Later joining NATO became impossible as NATO doesn't take members with disputed areas such as Crimea.
And Russia has publicly talked with several mouths about restoring lands belonging to Soviet Union, or even to Russian Empire. Flying planes over those areas is rather standard. Understandable if no land wants to face that alone.
@iju @StopTheSweepsPDX @petergleick
@iju @StopTheSweepsPDX @petergleick
Thank you, you are totally right, I remember now.
I let him mislead me.
So even his premise is wrong.
I'm out of words.
It was well-written diversion, as hinged on something that's not in active memory, conversations with Ukraine's NATO membership have been active recently, and then they framed it as "this is an undisputed fact".
I find messages like the above spreading freely to be a one more sign that all the technological "disruptions" we've had the past 25 years are far outpacing appliable societal customs and contracts. Which is one of the more alarming signs of societal instability.
@iju @StopTheSweepsPDX @jgg @petergleick The invasion of Ukraine wasn't about NATO or the EU. It was about Putin, and Russia. There is no justification for this war crime, this unjustified act of aggression. It is Putin, not international organisations that are responsible for this.
@drgeraint @StopTheSweepsPDX @jgg @petergleick
Stating reasons for war isn't the same as accepting them as justified.
@StopTheSweepsPDX @jgg @petergleick sorry, I'm not sure I get how the completely illegal invasion of Iraq justifies the completely illegal invasion of Ukraine. You're allowed be horrified by both bud, you don't have to choose.
In the meantime the attack on Ukraine inspired the single largest expansion of NATO in decades, so Putin seems to be more interested in recruiting for them than putting his neighbours off joining.
@StopTheSweepsPDX @jgg @petergleick The purpose of NATO is to be a force that can resist Russian aggression. The invasion of Ukraine clearly demonstrates the need for it.
okay - so why did NATO bomb Yugoslavia into the stone age?
@StopTheSweepsPDX @jgg @petergleick MAYBE if Russia didn't habitually invade neighbouring countries, there wouldn't be a need for NATO. If only.
maybe if the US stopped funding terrorists to attack and destabilize the nations of the former USSR, Russia wouldn't feel it is under attack by the West.
@StopTheSweepsPDX @drgeraint @petergleick
Which terrorists?
I hope you are not referring to the LGTBI people Putin has re framed recently as terrorists.
That would be a laugh.
The West has made a huge effort to be friends with Russia, and Russia has back-stabbed us.
They signed a treaty promising to defend (not only respect) Ukraine limits. That's what Putin's word is worth.
Only a total moron would believe in Putin's friendship after Ukraine.
@StopTheSweepsPDX @jgg @petergleick
Please move on to X, tovarish…
@StopTheSweepsPDX @jgg @petergleick "according to putin" is not an argument in any discussion. He said a lot of things, and most of them don't have much truth in it.
Ukraine didn't want to get into NATO until putin started an invasion in 2014.
@jgg @StopTheSweepsPDX @petergleick
It's not offtopic, it typical whataboutism. Besides, "wanted the oil" is a load of horseshit that has been debunked time and time again. The list of oil companies operating in Iraq is public: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_industry_in_Iraq#Service_contracts_licensing_results
Look who's there — Russia, a vocal critic of "US imperialism", and China! Their revenues is in the same ballpark than that of US companies. Did US do it for the right of Chinese companies to work there? Makes no sense!
@jgg @petergleick
according to putin, if the Ukraine agreed not to seek NATO membership, he would not start a war.
what is the purpose of NATO anymore, anyway? the risk of invasion and war with the Soviet Union?
MAYBE if diplomatic solutions were considered, instead of blowing nations all to hell just to create economic opportunities for the invading nations? like NATO did to Yugoslavia?