@jeffcliff @markwyner the only way to fight racism is to stop making everything racial. believe it or not, there exists more than just the racial identity power politics frame of reference, and 100% of the others are more informative than racism as the lenses to view the world.
@jeff @markwyner @jeffcliff I actually grew up without "racial awareness". I remember people telling me in my teens that one of my friends "looks middle eastern" but I never identified him as such because he spoke in berlin accent and never spoke about anything foreign ever. Pretty different to how americans grow up Id presume lol
@yangwenli @markwyner @jeffcliff i grew up in the same way, it flipped after 9/11 as if something was put into the water that turned people into puritanical socialist theocratic inquisition goon squad members
@jeff @markwyner @jeffcliff in germany I think it changed after the migrant crisis. My mom went from not caring to gigaracist and Im still shocked. It's the typical facebook-boomer stuff and I honestly blame social media for it a little. Corona made it even worse and now I cant even mention the news without her starting some conspiratorial rant
@yangwenli @markwyner @jeffcliff germany is very deeply xenophobic and will never rid itself of it's german superiority problem.
@jeff @markwyner @jeffcliff uhhh, I really disagree. If anything today's german culture is much closer to that of scandinavia in many ways. Not sure where you get this from.
@jeff @jeffcliff @markwyner I was merely talking about some boomers like my mother. The vast majority of germans are still fairly tolerant like most of western europe
@yangwenli @markwyner @jeffcliff you'll grow older and see that she is in a bizarre silent majority.
@jeff @markwyner @jeffcliff I will grow older with my generation. Not grow old into hers. If you gotta point fingers at a country in europe you may choose Hungary maybe. They actually stick out in this
@yangwenli @markwyner @jeffcliff how so? Germans act in a very distinct way that is very different than the french or english. you dont just stop being a german.
@yangwenli @markwyner @jeffcliff the culture may change but they never do a total 180. germany is all about being orderly and following protocol, for the sake of being productive and industrious. it's a profoundly positive culture but it has a lot of sharp edges when it comes into contact with other cultures that are not in line with those values. none of this is about race, but the ghosts of the past still reverberate today and no one should pretend they dont.
That's a really good way of rounding it up. And in defense of Germans, y'all have managed to pull yourselves out of 2 defeats in war and ended up the economic center of the EU. That's incredibly impressive, most countries around the world struggle to even save themselves from themselves.
@cjd @yangwenli @markwyner @jeffcliff they accomplished their dream of a European super state after the whole world fucked them over for trying to make a European super state. it's actually impressive.
@jeff @markwyner @cjd @jeffcliff this is derailing. You said germans are xenophobic and then just went nowhere
My opinion FWIW (hi BTW), is that Germans are not any more inherently racist or xenophobic than anyone else. Throughout history, most people have thought they're the best in the world. Germans are unique for taking things ultra seriously. Like, no joking, no laughing, 100%... And that undermines critical thinking - so when you get into a though pattern which is bad, you're follow it all the way to the end.
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@cjd @yangwenli @jeff @markwyner @jeffcliff
there's a family guy skit for that
South Park was much better.
To be frank, I never thought about the possibility that it would be hard for a German to understand why they're considered dangerous. But nothing against you, actually I think you're especially cool for caring to understand in the first place. In any case, we both need to sleep, have a good one...
