I'm really curious about the #Pinephone #LoRa case, too. Personally I would *love* to see a #FOSS #privacy friendly alternative to #Tile / #Trackr. I mean, LoRa would have a much better range than Bluetooth, better security I suspect and meanwhile Tile and Trackr have become privacy nightmares demanding always on location tracking and having your phone be used by their network even when you're not using their app.
A LoRa beacon+speaker could be *so* much better!
Am I reading this right for LoRa restrictions?:
If you use The Things Network (free public community LoRaWAN network), the following fair use policy applies:
The uplink airtime is limited to 30 seconds per day (24 hours) per node.
The downlink messages are limited to 10 messages per day (24 hours) per node.
It makes sense there's be restrictions but this seems excessive. (Could be I'm just not fully sped up on the full limitations)
@johannes Being the owner of one, I already know that to be true, but that doesn't make it unusable. It's the same as my netbook. I'm not going to use it to do my heavy lifting, but it's still useful for SSHing and doing some lightweight tasks and being more portable than my main laptop. 🤷♂️ @lupyuen
For the PP, I bought a USB-C dock to see convergeance in action, but it really is just a proof of concept as performance is just atrocious. I assume, for decent performance one has to spend 700 bucks on the Librem5. Performance has its price. Just that when I place my order, I was blinded to that obvious fact by the hype.
@jawsh @claudiom @lupyuen Still, I am currently trying to use the PP as my daily driver, which does take some discipline. It a way, it is a good thing because with the PP, I don't find myself staring at the screen all the time, as there is simply much less happening.
I still am confident that the momentum now is much stronger than a couple of years back with OpenMoko, and Pine64 deserves some of the praise for making this happen. Still they have an issue with overpromising and underperforming.
@johannes I don't dare consider the PinePhone as a daily driver for a phone. For a portable computer, however, it's definitely better than my Eee PC 901 once that keyboard attachment is up for sale. Again, I'm not going to use this to replace my Core i5 laptop anytime soon, but it definitely has enough performance for me to use on the go for certain things, and surely newer models will have better performance. @jawsh @lupyuen
@johannes And, as @jawsh says, you're comparing it to a flagship-ish phone. My OnePlus 6T cost me almost $600 US when I got it and it's still quite fast. But, I paid what I paid for it. The PP reminds me of my old Nexus 4, which was much more affordable than my 6T even when it was released. @lupyuen
@claudiom @jawsh @lupyuen Wasn't one of the promises of running mainline Linux that you get better performance because you don't have all the overhead Android comes with? Anyway, regardless of what runs on the OP1 (Ubuntu Touch in my case, yes I know, with Halium underneath) the point is that the mere hardware specs are better even though the device predates the PP by 6 years and wasn't sold at a premium price. But ok, maybe I should stop whining now...
$300 from 2014 v. $200 in 2021. 50% more, without even taking inflation into account. You've got a funny definition of "not so much more".
Anyway. Jawsh mentions a limited pool of available hardware able to run mainline Linux. But there's also the matter of volume discounts. PINE64 has sold thousands of Pinephones so far, but I'd wager OnePlus sold much, much more of its OPO. They must be paying a premium because they're buying comparatively low volumes.
@claudiom @jawsh @lupyuen
@normandc @claudiom @jawsh @lupyuen Inflation is so low nowadays that 300 € in 2014 are just 331 € in today's money. https://fxtop.com/de/inflationsrechner.php?A=300&C1=EUR&INDICE=DECPI2005&DD1=31&MM1=01&YYYY1=2014&DD2=19&MM2=05&YYYY2=2021&btnOK=%C3%84quivalent+berechnen Anyway, my point was that the OnePlus One wasn't a flagship device. It was a good mid-range phone, and compared to that, the hardware of the Pinephone is pretty low-end. Sure, that's how they get to the low price, but that's also what greatly reduces its usefulness as a daily driver, which is what I had naively been hoping for.
10% inflation over 7 years may not be a lot, but it's now 331€ over $200 USD, which is now over 100% more. Just saying.
I too wish they could have picked a more powerful chip. But the choices are limited when you want to run mainline Linux and be as FOSS as possible. RPi's require more proprietary blobs. Apart from Allwinner and Rockchip, I don't know of other makers that allow that. The big players aren't interested. Olimex also uses Allwinner chips BTW.
@claudiom @jawsh @lupyuen
@johannes @claudiom @jawsh @lupyuen
PINE64 is working on a new SBC based on a more powerful Rockchip SoC. It's going to be more power hungry too. I bet we'll eventually see a Pinephone 2.0 running this SoC or some variant of it. It's going to take time though, and all that optimisation work will have to be done again from the beginning.
@normandc @jawsh @lupyuen @claudiom I don't know, I am a happy Debian user since 2001. Sure, when I first installed it, you had to manually write the modelines for your monitor and stuff, but I'd say that around the appearance of GNOME 2 in 2002, things started to just work(tm), and by 2008, the desktop was actually pretty usable for non-technical users. I also think that the challenges for mobile development are very different. I hope you are right, the dynamic is there, but it's no done deal.
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