@dangoodin If I were a US citizen I would vote Biden, of course, but oh so begrudgingly…

Genocide is not a narrow issue. For all the good things he's done, his extending a red carpet for Israel to continue indiscriminately killing journalists, aid workers and civilians turned the election from a "decent vs evil" choice to the f****** trolley problem.

@argv_minus_one @dangoodin Like in the trolley problem, there is an "obviously correct option," but I'm not blaming anyone who can't choose either. It's a shit position to be in.

Something as basic as defending peaceful protesters' right to protest and having any sort of red line regarding Israel's actions would've made this so, so much easier.

@ddg @argv_minus_one @dangoodin I'll agree that it's a shit position to be in, but that's as far as I'll go. Complaining that it should be easier is a crap argument. Democracy isn't easy. It's hard. It requires citizens to balance multiple interests and take affirmative responsibility. Abandoning that responsibility to fascists doesn't make you more ideologically pure. It makes you culpable for whatever happens next.

Corrupt authoritarians don't come to power exclusively under their own steam. They come to power because too much of the population couldn't be bothered to give a shit.

@DaveMWilburn @argv_minus_one @dangoodin I'm sure many people won't vote Biden because they very much give a shit. Do you think people like the protesters for Palestine are indifferent? People who put their lives on the line to support the Palestinian people, do you think they can stomach voting for someone who is not indifferent to, but actively supports their indiscriminate killing?

Just the fact that we're expected to give up our values to fight fascism is evidence that fascism is already winning.

@ddg @argv_minus_one @dangoodin Protesting is fine. But if all they ever do is protest but don't vote, then the only people their activism will benefit is themselves to help them feel better and to gain social currency with their in-groups. It's selfish. Their internal rationalizations won't mean crap when Trump does far worse, not just to Palestinians but also to Ukrainians, Muslims, Black Americans, immigrants, and LGBTQ. We're talking about a would-be-dictator with explicit plans to declare martial law and round up immigrants and other undesirables into concentration camps for expulsion. One single vote is worth more than all the protesting one could do put together. Don't look to me to help you feel better about your decision.

@DaveMWilburn @argv_minus_one @dangoodin They not only protested, but were also attacked by the police. They were attacked by counter-protesters which the police didn't even try to stop. And they were criticized by the Biden administration.

If you want the protesters' vote, how about treating them with a modicum of respect?

@ddg @DaveMWilburn @argv_minus_one

I almost agree with almost everything you have said in your earlier contributions to this thread. You do, however, realize that the United States is and always has been an extremely right wing country controlled and driven by , among other things, racism and money grubbing oppressors with strong nationalist values, right? These people are putting aside their considerable individual differences with orange felon in furtherance of the 80% that all MAGAs agree on. You think the evangelicals like that he fucked a pornstar and a Playboy playmate and paid them to keep it quiet? You think they're okay with him fucking around on his wife right after she gave birth to his son? Of course they aren't. They're absolutely horrified. But ultimately, they will vote for him and the nightmare scenario of trump retaking the White House will be reality.

We on the left are so, so fucked when/if that happens.