Step 5/7 : RUN python3 -m pip install .
 ---> Running in 31b96e802fdb/usr/bin/python3: No module named pip

Hmm.. So also ships a crippled thing that is not when you dnf install python3.

I was hoping that that was a reasonable alternative to Debian/Ubuntu ☹

@pganssle pip is not part of python. There is no reason it should be bundled together in the core python package.

@adamw @pganssle "make install" from the CPython source will install it. Why should it not be part of a binary python package?

@Yhg1s @adamw @pganssle because container people then complains that containers are bloated.


Then those containers should not have Python at all. If we have Python then it should be proper Python.

@Yhg1s @adamw @pganssle


On a different note, I count Fedora as the best distrition for developers. I hope it stays in that way.

@Yhg1s @adamw @pganssle

@feld this also shows why fedora is great as people here really work with upstream.

Are you implying that the Debian folks didn't? This change is being encouraged by upstream Python

@feld I read what I wrote and did not see the word Debian in that sentence.

Is there a major OS that doesn't work with upstream Python?

Debian does
Fedora does
FreeBSD does (and contributed some massive performance improvements last few years)

Just curious


I think then we should provide full Python experience out of the box for the container users :)

@Yhg1s @adamw @pganssle

@pganssle "To support that end, this PEP proposes the inclusion of an ensurepip bootstrapping module in Python 3.4, as well as automatic invocation of that module from pyvenv ... This PEP does not propose making pip (or any dependencies) directly available as part of the standard library." (emphasis original). ensurepip is part of python3-libs on Fedora, which python3 depends on.

@adamw @pganssle Should `python -m ensurepip` be advertised more widely then?

Didn't they remove pip intentionally because it breaks other packaged python stuff when you install python packages globally from pip? That's what PEP-668 was about.

@pganssle system pip makes some amount of sense for –user maybe (but why not venv for libs or pipx for apps?) but if you’re not using that then you’re dealing with packages that are externally managed by dnf so is there really a point? IMO, the more important thing is whether it ships venv/ensurepip or not. Debian/Ubuntu cripples Python like that and that’s a bit too much. Not having system Python also makes using pip instead of python -m pip safer since you can’t accidentally run it using system pip then.

@JakubKuczys In this situation I am fine with using system pip because it’s a docker container, the whole system is basically one big virtual environment.

@pganssle that’s alright but you can just install the pip package then since you do need it. It’s just that generally, it doesn’t seem to me like it should really be a part of the base package.

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