No wonder #KochNetwork and the Saudis are investing so heavily in AI; it's a strategy to keep the globe addicted to fossil fuels.
https://qz.com/saudi-arabia-ai-public-investment-fun-1851350604
https://www.arabnews.com/node/2572046/saudi-arabia
https://www.businessinsider.com/saudi-arabia-ai-groq-a16z-vision-2030-mbs-2024-9
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/01/25/conservatives-prepare-attack-on-bidens-ai-order-00137935
https://news.kochinc.com/news/2022/koch-invests-koch-backs-celestial-ai-s-work-to-acc
@Npars01 @noellemitchell Sorry, that does not track with what the hyperscalars are actually doing. Training runs need high continuous base load and even coal doesn’t do that well.
In reality, GenAI requirements are turbocharging the drive to carbon-free nuclear
@dragonsidedd @Npars01 @noellemitchell nuclear is slow to build. Gas is what’s being built, because their return on investment works on the scales of political cycles a industry can support.
And your argument for continuous loads is partially false. Training runs for the mega-models do last for months, but between runs there is great variability. And that’s where gas shines.
https://www.powermag.com/industry-exec-data-centers-will-drive-demand-for-natural-gas/
Overhead costs are enormous as well. Armed guards, safety crews, training etc...all add up.
Solar, wind and hydro offer turnkey profit in less than a year. Very attractive.
@Nimbius666 @gimulnautti @noellemitchell @Npars01 @dragonsidedd
"Too cheap to meter" nuclear is just a few years away... and has been for 60 years now.
@pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti @noellemitchell @dragonsidedd
Nuclear waste?
https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-dirty-secret-its-leaking-nuclear-waste-dump/video-70237250
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czx6e2x0kdyo
Nuclear leaks?
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c7v6646l9emo
A nuclear version of Cancer Alley for where POC live?
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2024/08/19/radioactive-waste-atom-bomb-disposal-van-buren-township-wayne-county/74814545007/
Radioactive food supplies?
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/china-to-gradually-resume-imports-of-japan-seafood-after-consensus-on-nuclear-waste/3335525
Illegal dumping?
https://www.desmog.com/2024/09/19/from-uk-to-norway-drillers-legally-dump-tonnes-of-toxic-radioactive-waste-into-the-north-sea/
What to do with the Columbia River once radiation from Hanford gets there?
https://mynorthwest.com/3989510/mayfield-transporting-nuclear-waste-hanford-disaster-waiting-to-happen/
@Npars01 @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti @noellemitchell @dragonsidedd Nuclear waste isn’t as difficult a problem as people think. It can be buried deep enough that only a modern nation state could get near it, and if they do, by nearly astronomical odds, stumble on it, the tomb would be so conspicuous only fools wouldn’t check for all forms of safety.
The waste problem is entirely political.
@Npars01 @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti @noellemitchell @dragonsidedd That doesn’t solve the other issues. Our current nuclear energy strategy is an aging disaster. Solar, wind, and tidal are where we need to go right now. I don’t see the political will to rebuild our nuclear energy infrastructure coming any time soon.
@Npars01 @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti @noellemitchell @dragonsidedd I’m neither pro nir anti nuclear. I think it could be done safely. It isn’t being done safely. It won’t be done safely any time soon, so we should move on until we get our act together.
@Extra_Special_Carbon @Npars01 @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti @noellemitchell
FWIW I am super bullish on high temperature superconductors for spherical tokamaks.
And a viable machine is coming online in <2 years
@dragonsidedd @Extra_Special_Carbon @Npars01 @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti @noellemitchell Can we wait until a technology exists before we count on it?
Also, non-real-time computing does not require a fixed-power energy source. Things like nuclear is totally unnecessary for training tasks. Train when you have power. Pause the training when you don’t.
And nuclear is not a stable source of energy. France had to turn off nuclear because of too-hot rivers, and emergency shutdowns are common.
@ahltorp @Extra_Special_Carbon @Npars01 @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti @noellemitchell
> Can we wait until a technology exists before we count on it?
You should learn about HTS. It is decades-old technology that has been gaining incrementally.
> nuclear is totally unnecessary for training tasks. Train when you have power. Pause the training when you don’t.
This would take orders of magnitude *more* power due to the save and read data required for suspend-and-restore.
@dragonsidedd @Extra_Special_Carbon @Npars01 @pieist @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti @noellemitchell I was not referring to HTS, I was referring to fusion reactors. Once they a) work, and b) have been tested a while, then they are relevant. Before then it’s just wishful thinking, which is no basis for a system of government.
As for pausing, I recommend basic power management literature. This is not the forum for a detailed discussion. I would write a longer text, but: sealioning.
@ahltorp @dragonsidedd @Extra_Special_Carbon @Npars01 @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti @noellemitchell
Speaking of which, if crocodiles are flourishing in French rivers thanks to nuclear power, just imagine how the sea lions must feel.
@pieist @ahltorp @dragonsidedd @Extra_Special_Carbon @Nimbius666 @gimulnautti @noellemitchell
The sea lions die of cancer from radioactive fish.