pies @pies@qoto.org

@zack @MelodyCooper @freemo I guess Americans are just more hateful. Thank you for making that clear :)

@freemo @MelodyCooper @zack But causality does require correlation, doesn't it? And US demonstrably has a lot of guns and does not have a low murder rate. There is no reason to think a lot of guns lowers murder rates. There is a reason to think the opposite.

@zack @MelodyCooper @freemo Do I even have to say it? US ranks nr 14 in the world in reported rape, and the only rich country that's above it is Sweden. Guns don't stop sexual assault from happening. Guns do not make a country safer at all.

@freemo @MelodyCooper @zack I really don't understand how someone can say with a straight face that guns lower murder rate while living in a country that has an enormous murder rate and loads of guns. Arguing that guns don't boost murder rate is very counterintuitive to me and not in line with the stuff I've read, but it's somewhat plausible. But if guns lower murder rate how many more guns do you need to get your murder rate to a normal level? You guys have more guns than people.

@freemo @MelodyCooper @zack I see no evidence that a lot of guns that people in US have lowers the murder rate there. Quite the opposite. You have a lot of guns and a lot of murders.

@freemo @MelodyCooper @zack I'm not talking about gun violence but murder rate.

@freemo @MelodyCooper @zack No, I think guns play a major role in murder rate. They're not the only factor, obviously, but they're the big one.

@zack @MelodyCooper @freemo So your conclusion is that both gun ownership and murder rates are both caused by poverty?

@zack @MelodyCooper @freemo The other conclusion being that people started buying guns after all the knife shootings?

@freemo @zack @MelodyCooper But sure, here you go, a list of studies linking number of guns to homicide rates. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/

Let me guess, it doesn't prove causation, because it's a study.

@freemo @zack @MelodyCooper Whatever I could provide you'll just say that I'm wrong and you don't have to provide any proof because you did before. What would be the point?

@freemo @zack @MelodyCooper Still the same :D No, I'm not changing the subject, I'm literally answering your question. And sure, let's say I also provided my data and sources elsewhere, so we can be done.

@freemo @zack @MelodyCooper You have not provided data for any of those assertions:

@freemo @zack @MelodyCooper Sure, that's the reason you haven't provided any data. That's the reason our conversation led nowhere. Well, good luck with your safety guns.

@freemo @zack @MelodyCooper Yeah, this kind of goes as expected :) Gun nuts ask for data, then they don't like the data, they have no data, and they keep believing. Well, I hope more people come to their senses, their democratic voice gets heard, and you fix your glaring problem so that gun nuts around here don't point to US and claim you're doing great despite the guns.

@freemo @zack @MelodyCooper So my data is unspecifically invalid, gotcha.

@freemo @zack @MelodyCooper Which one are you questioning? Murder rates, number of gang-related homicides, Swiss gun laws?

@zack @MelodyCooper @freemo I still don't see any data or links.