My three-month experiment using #Logseq as a daily driver -- and potential replacement for #Obsidian -- is over!
Here are my notes on which app ended up being best for this long form writer ... and why:
https://markmcelroy.com/choosing-between-logseq-and-obsidian/
> The interaction — my first unpleasant one on Mastodon — left me with a bad taste in my mouth. And while neither Logseq nor its developers are responsible for one person’s behavior … I confess this exchange influenced how I felt about Logseq.
To anyone reading this and wondering why OP doesn't link it, it's because it was him complaining about Logseq all the day without realizing #FOSS has a different culture compared to Apple users:
We build our **tools**, you **consume** products.
Please just go back to Twitter and maybe never use FOSS again since you don't want to understand its culture nor respecting it but expecting consumer service and even complaining of having to report bugs against beta software (crazy!).
Ha, and if you were from the software industry you would know that 3 years are nothing and it is totally normal to be in beta after 3 years for complex applications like Logseq, it's just that you know about a proprietary product only when it is or very close to be released, ignoring how many years it took.
Replying to the wrong comment? I can't see how it could be related to what I said.
Ha, yes. To be clear, I am criticizing OP because of their closed mind in previous interactions when it comes to appreciate FOSS: a different kind of "products" that need a different lens to be judged.
With most proprietary products you can only complain so people get used to that. With FOSS you have the chance to help.
OP complained all the time, made judgements even on the community like they were reviewing a product, didn't try to improve things, their interactions with the community are close to zero: they just sat down and enjoyed the trip.
I know not all Apple users are like that but don't tell me this is not what Apple itself expects its users to be.
For those who came across this post, please understand that this bears no resemblance to Logseq dev team viewpoint. Afaik, they don't go around touting about the "culture" of FOSS.
Regarding the complaints about Logseq. All are valid. Check it for yourself: Join the Discord server and search for people's complaints about bugs or performance. Or check the bug history on GitHub after every new update released.
Maybe if you and the Logseq team spent more time understanding FOSS we would have more successful FOSS projects like Blender, Krita, Libreoffice just to name a few. But on Logseq team defense, they welcome contributions on GitHub so they already do 90% of what's expected by FOSS maintainers.
My point against OP still stands though and it was against them specifically because they complained all the time, didn't interact with the community and did nothing to help when invited to do so.
And them judging the community like the section of a review was annoying: "and the waiters were nice (minus one)!"
@post I can agree with you that the project can be better. Could you write a Github issue with a few suggestions on how they can better understand FOSS to make the project more successful?
I've raised many issues over more than a year when I used Logseq extensively: reporting bugs and giving lots of feedback. I've exhausted everything I can think of. If you have something new to contribute I think they'd really appreciate it.
They can just develop in the open like most FOSS projects but I doubt they want to. Also they could clarify what kind of contract they have with VC funds and what these investors expect.
Starting to develop in the open at this stage is not trivial because people not used to FOSS make a lot of "noise".
You quoted "culture" but the right culture is exactly what is needed here and it can't be shared with just a message or two.
I am starting to believe that an healthy FOSS project is one that grows together with its users and by this I mean that a smaller userbase understands how to contribute efficiently, welcome new users and educate them.
If you open Logseq Discord it doesn't look like a FOSS chat space at all. It's all a chaos of people writing in the wrong channel and not using the forum at all. Most of them have zero experience with FOSS.
If you reply to them with useful answer they start to contact you privately with new unrelated questions instead of keeping asking in the public. An attempt to skip the queue for help, I guess.
My fear is that Logseq is used by people that are not really the target userbase and that they would be better served by a simpler app. But most MacOS apps are paid so Logseq is more attractive.
Logseq is a unique case that deserves a sociology study, I kid you not.
@post okay now I have some idea of the FOSS culture you're talking about, and indeed it is very different from my experience with the Logseq community.
I have quite a bit of fear about Logseq especially with the recent demise of Athens and Dendron. But it was so slow I abandoned it anyway so I'm not as invested in it as I used to be.
@post @markmcelroy but that’s the thing. Logseq is taking VC money so they will need to justify that by having a large group of users at some point, and they all won’t be as forgiving.
I’m willing to do that because I have already invested the decades in OSS but I wouldn’t recommend Logseq to a non-programmer today and that’s unfortunate.