@complexmath @Tinu Absolutely. Language in particular is a very powerful mechanism for identifying who is "part of the tribe" and who isn't. Lots of other things, particularly skin color, are obviously used that way as well. The hard part, from my perspective, is that doing this is a fundamental part of being a human, or mammal for that matter.
I don't have any exact way forward but it seems to me that acknowledging tribes, and tribalism, as a necessary part of the human experience is needed for any kind of meaningful cross-community discussions and growth.
CWs, and the discussions around them, seem like a really good example of tribes building up identities around something. Open question is whether the tribes can come to understand each other and work together to figure out a good way forward or not. It'll be interesting!
@Tinu @complexmath yeah, there is a lot of conversation floating around and it's quite possible I missed the right thread for what I was saying (I'm sorry).
With regards to the extra work necessary to exist as a Black person, I have no direct experience (you just died of shock, I'm sure 😆). It would be cool if there were a space where that extra lift wasn't necessary.
I have absolutely no idea if this was the case. It may be, for the CW specific part of the discussion, a person asking for a CW was hoping to find a space where they weren't reminded about how much *extra* is necessary in the real world. Good reason to attack someone/force something on them? Of course not. But it's possible the goal wasn't silencing so much as trying to get away from something. Same unfortunate lift on your end, and certainly not an acceptable mandate, but possibly not a malicious request either.
@complexmath @shadowsonawall Still doesn't really help me understand how your addition to the discussion I addressed to Black people is aided by your input?
I have medical fatigue problems so I'm very "cut to chase" oriented" - none of this moves me toward solution. Did you listen to the audio? Did you read any/all the posts? Are you addressing what you heard or what I said.
They are Wildy divergent.
@Tinu @complexmath I went back and re-read the NFIC link that you'd posted which was my first introduction to this entire concept. I got a lot more out of it the second time. I like to think that's because I just started exploring a concept with you and others but it could also just be that you usually get more out of the second pass.
In any event, I didn't realize there was a specific problem to be solved. It sounded more like a general cultural issue. I'm all about helping with specific problems. The general cultural issue is well beyond my abilities though, other than just trying to learn and grow personally.
@shadowsonawall @Tinu muting and blocking means I don’t want to listen to you. Saying someone has to live inside a CW means no one wants to listen to you, and puts the labor for managing that on the person concerned. When most people in the space don’t seem to be following the same rules, that message is even louder. And it shouldn’t be necessary to push for changes just to feel like you can exist somewhere. Folks are tired.
@complexmath @Tinu oooo - I hadn't considered that perspective (an individual not wanting to hear vs an ask that you not be heard). Thank you! That makes a lot of sense. I'm not directly affected but I appreciate the effort to educate me anyway!
@shadowsonawall @complexmath Not sure which of the four overlapping discussions this is in reference to because though all your points are indeed aound, they don't really address my issue, which was not CWs or tribes.
My comments were regarding to do extra emotional, mental of physical work to exist as a Black person in public spaces, specifically the labor white people are neither expected to do
nor ostracized or lectures for refusing to do.