Remember in Blues Brothers when they end up at the Nazi rally and the point isn't even that Jake really hates Nazis, it's that Nazis are about the biggest losers that anyone could imagine. They are portrayed as completely pathetic dead-ender assholes.

Or in the Rocketeer when the mobsters find our the Sinclair guy is a Nazi and join forces with the FBI to stop them because Nazis are clearly the worst thing.

Or when Christopher Plummer rips the Nazi flag in two in Sound of Music.

None of these films were making bold political statements. The Nazis were the bad guys because that was something that everyone in the audience could agree one. Dunking on Nazis was a guaranteed crowd pleaser.

When the hell did we stop agreeing on something so simple and self-evident as Nazis Are Fucking Losers?

@theropologist Nazis are fucking losers! Let's all agree.

@RickiTarr @theropologist Certain personality types are strongly attracted to right-wing ideas (and police work). Some "social misfits" (for lack of a better term) is one such.

But before we point fingers It's good to bear in mind that these social misfits were created by society / family / circumstances and we're not dealing with that. The young man with an eating disorder, who can't succeed with the ladies or jobs, who lives in his mother's basement and plays with guns has problems and needs that society is not addressing. He's marginalized and looks for ways to gain more personal power. Right-wing ideas are very attractive to him. Joining a right-wing group also provides camaraderie and sense of belonging to a family.

@shuttersparks @RickiTarr @theropologist
You can't push on a rope. People need to reach out for help and do the hard work in order to improve in addition to having the infrastructure in place to help them.

@DejahEntendu @shuttersparks @RickiTarr @theropologist but without an existing infrastructure you can't even see if anyone is reaching out. Maybe most of them do - but who cares atm?

@Blahster @shuttersparks @RickiTarr @theropologist
What are teachers?
What are therapists?
What are community centers?
What are friends? Online or in person.
Aunts? Uncles? Cousins?
National help lines?
Religious leaders, if they apply in your life?
There's always someone to reach out to.

How do I know?
I've been painted into corners, feeling like there was no one. Until I lifted up my head and saw there were.

No one changes without wanting to.

@DejahEntendu @shuttersparks @RickiTarr @theropologist yes many reach out, and some don't. Some reach out and don't find someone, and some reach the wrong people.
That's why the world isn't overrun by such hateful, self-centered, or extremist people. All that doesn't nullify my comment.

@Blahster @DejahEntendu @shuttersparks @theropologist Everyone feels marginalized at some point, but we need to stop acting like people don't have free will, if you choose to spend time with Nazis, you can't pretend you don't know what that is and what it stands for, and there's absolutely no excuse for it. People can make better choices than that, and it is their responsibility to do so. They are simply a person who believes some people are less than, and you deserve to be called a loser for that.

@RickiTarr @DejahEntendu @shuttersparks @theropologist of course it's their own responsibility and I also don't marginalise that. But you should be careful what you preach - on the one hand it's about tolerance for everyone and people becoming victims without their own fault (beggars, cripples, extreme poor) and on the other hand the people who "choose" to become Nazis. I call double standards.

@Blahster @RickiTarr @DejahEntendu @shuttersparks @theropologist

One is something that happens to you and marginalises you and the second is a political stance which advocates violence.

I understand that fascism also arises from lack of support and that we need to address that, but your example is insulting.

@FrenchPanda @RickiTarr @DejahEntendu @shuttersparks @theropologist mz example is insulting? Did you actually read what I wrote?

@Blahster @RickiTarr @DejahEntendu @shuttersparks @theropologist

I will directly quote you so you can be assured that I have read your toot.

'on the one hand it's about tolerance for everyone and people becoming victims without their own fault (beggars, cripples, extreme poor) and on the other hand the people who "choose" to become Nazis. I call double standards.'

Nazis are not victims. They are participants in a violent political movement. They are not only participant in the system of marginalisation but enforcers of its most violent forms.

On the other hand marginalised people who are victims of said systems because of external factors are victims of those circumstances. They are the target of nazis.

Comparing the two is insulting

@FrenchPanda @RickiTarr @DejahEntendu @shuttersparks @theropologist and if you actually understood what I said, then you wouldn't have brought that up. I was talking about people on the way - the wrong way if you view it from the outside. But not everything is clear if you are on that way yourself, maybe because it is slow and silent or what else...
Not everything is black and white, and I was not defending Nazis at all.

@Blahster @RickiTarr @DejahEntendu @shuttersparks @theropologist

I never said that you were defending nazis, I said that this was an insulting comparison. And I also fail to see how it helps your point...

You can talk about how a lack of support in communities helps reactionary endoctrinment without it, in my opinion.

@FrenchPanda @RickiTarr @DejahEntendu @shuttersparks @theropologist why? Both groups are left out and stigmatised by society, are many times not at fault for their situation and could be helped by reaching out early enough. That was all I wanted to say with this comparison.

Yes, many fascists are fascist because they actively took this path and are to narrow-minded. But I'm sure there are many who slid - like the other one said - and slid too far before realising they slid into a bubble.

@Blahster @RickiTarr @DejahEntendu @shuttersparks @theropologist

I already told you why I think it insulting. I will and elaborate my point:
* Yes, some become reactionaries because they were preyed upon by bad actors using their needs as a weapon.
* Yes, it is important (independently of that recruiting) to provode support for people in need in our communities.
* No they are not the same as marginalised folks.
* Choosing to empower yourself out the expanse of others is character flaw and I my personal opinion, you can only go so far before it becomes something you did and not something that was done to you.
* While we should dismantle fascism from all fronts (including recruitment), I think that in many cases and especially right now it's rather in our priorities which always makes me worry when we spend too much time talking about those who were/are endoctinated...

@FrenchPanda @RickiTarr @DejahEntendu @shuttersparks @theropologist the we are at different options here. I think most of them do spread hate and violence because they are typical followers. Because everyone in their bubble does it and therefore it must be okay.
Our first priority should be to plopp the bubbles, showing them not everyone is thinking the same.
If that would succeed, the minor rest would be nothing more than a small group - as insignificant as the NPD was.

@Blahster @RickiTarr @DejahEntendu @shuttersparks @theropologist

We have no evidence that popping the bubble would deradicalise enough current and transitioning reactionaries to make a sensible difference and/or stop the current fascistic movements popping all around the world.

It is an important work and if you want to dedicate your time to it, then good. It's work that needs to be done too.

But again, we need to remember that it's time, ressources and energy that is not spent sabotaging, fighting, protecting and organising.