@admitsWrongIfProven We have to have total control over the development environment for security/legal reasons so everything we use is self hosted. So we've been using Eclipse Ché

@skanman Eclipse Che? I actually had to look that up ^^
Is it as slow and cumbersome as eclipse itself?
And i must say... there are many words describing it, sounding like something like it could be similar to gitlab, but the screenshots i see lookes like a development tool, nothing more.

I'm feeling strongly about the self-hosting part. If a customer rolls out something like atlassian tools, i think "Great, good tools. The cloud lock-in is not my problem here.". But i would never want cloud-stuff for myself...

Thinking back, i have not had a chance to actually choose tools beyond my own development environment (IntelliJ) in such a long time, i do not even know if there is more than gitlab (which i thought was bought by M$, but it seems i was wrong) that actually is useful for collaboration and available cloud-free.

@admitsWrongIfProven

Well I've got it on a dedicated server, so it runs much faster because it's on a beast of a server, especially for compile times. It can track developer edits, and the need of merging is mitigated by real time collaborative editing, so if I wanted to, I can watch my programmers coding in real time and jump in if I want. Handling support requests and issues, I just built a tool for that and because Ché is web based, it's easy enough just to add links to files that are being tracked. The other magic trick it can do is spool up testing environments / containers / vm on the fly. That's more useful in practice than I thought it would be. It's super flexible, it's community strength is low/medium. If you're dumb like me, you can use it to edit itself in a separate container, and if you're modifications are good, migrate the modified source and it's live.

For the bad:
It's very resource intensive.
Installation/configuration nightmare.
Modifications are difficult.
It's one of those things I poked with a stick for a year before using it.

For my purposes though, we mostly build algorithms and backends, for that it's great.

IntelliJ.. wow haven't heard that name in a while.

@skanman Well, che sounds like it could be useful (if someone is willing to do that part with the stick you mentioned), but eclipse itself... oh nightmare, a search that takes ages and is not very good, everything hangs a little, no matter how fast your machine... it was good like 10 years ago, not any more.

@admitsWrongIfProven oh eclipse is garbage, and also understand the backend of che is the same as eclipse. But I don't download updates, so I'm able to strip the bloat out of it, and we do our own updates to it internally. That's another reason I poked it with a stick for a year 😂, eclipse was garbage, is garbage, and will be garbage for the foreseeable future. And to think that Android Studio was built on top of that nightmare. What was Google thinking?

@admitsWrongIfProven lol I wouldn't cry from that but I got pretty depressed once having to rebuild a backend with ssh and nano, that's the closest I've been to development tears.

@skanman Anything that uses bash scripts can be as powerful as frustrating. I rarely script, and the ways to escape variables have driven me to try 10 variants in one go to finally find out what works, some years ago...