@timorl Because genetic surrogacy commodifies babies, making them the object of a contractual transaction.
Let me know if I'm off track here.
I'm an advocate of adoption, when necessary (and not a fan when not necessary, and I'm a fan of helping it not be necessary). Sometimes a family will have an arrangement with a pregnant mother who is not able/willing to care for her baby, and they assisted with living and medical expenses during the pregnancy.
In this situation, the baby is already conceived, reproduction has already happened, and people are making decisions about what they believe is in the best interest of the child and other parties involved.
But in your scenarios, the decision isn't being made about already conceived babies, but about conceiving them. That seems to cross a different line that I'm...more hesitant about crossing.
Do you object to any/every ...other-than-natural means of conception and child bearing? Or is this specifically about this parties who choose/are chosen to be involved in these ways?
@SecondJon @timorl Adoption is noble and praiseworthy. It gives a family to children that found themselves in difficult circumstances. What I am discussing here, instead, is the opposite. Traditional surrogacy deliberately separates children from their mothers. I personally object every form of artificial reproduction but I think the law should permit ivf within the couple. I wouldn't use it but I don't see strong reason to ban it.
Instead, every other procedure that deliberately separates a child from their natural mother and also father should not be permitted by the law because it is not in the interest of the child.
@angelobottone I don't quite see why this would be problematic. Even though the phrasing sounds bad to me, after thinking about it I cannot see what the problem with the situation itself is.
But this is irrelevant to my original (perhaps imperfectly phrased) question. What is the difference in what Annemarie is doing as opposed to what Anne and Marie are doing, that makes it so much different? I cannot think of anything that could be considered problematic in the Annemarie case that wouldn't be equally problematic in either the Anne or the Marie case, usually both. I think the "commodifying" issue is applicable just as much to all of them.
@SecondJon I have similar problems with your answer, it still doesn't differentiate the Anne&Marie from the Annemarie situation (and, once again, this might be the fault of my phrasing of the original question).
I do agree that adoption is a better solution than surrogacy to the problem of a couple wanting children, but @angelobottone seemed to imply that it is bad in general, in a vacuum, even when adoption is not an option.
I should probably point out that I see some problemes with surrogacy, but none of them make the act itself bad. They mostly make it harder to exacute in a way that does not hurt anyone. The problems I see are mostly related to emotional bonding that happens due to pregnancy and birth for most (I think?) women.
@timorl @SecondJon I agree with timorl, there is no difference between Annemarie and Anne&Marie but it seems that Annamarie is closer to baby selling than Anne&Marie. Is it because two fondamental moments of being a mother (conceiving and gestating) are separated that makes it appear less problematic? This is what I am trying to understand.
@angelobottone @SecondJon Actually this post answered my question! I did not see how one can have an intuition that what Annemarie is doing is more problematic, but if you frame this situation as "baby selling" then it makes some sense. It's much harder to say that either Anne or Marie are selling the baby, but you can conceivably say this about Annemarie.
But I also feel this shows that the framing itself is forced. I think of this kind of surrogacy rather as selling ones bodytime (mostly), and this framing works for all three of the women.
Obviously neither of the framings is a proper moral argument in itself, they are just attempts to get some intuition about the issue.
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