I just attended a very inspiring #FnF23 session convened by @erikkemp on the topic of Fediverse governance. People from many countries, backgrounds and groups were present.
In my opinion, it's too early for creating governing bodies, and I'm not sure we will ever need them. What I find useful is covenants that instances can sign. E.g. digitalcourage.social signed the well-known Mastodon covenant <https://joinmastodon.org/covenant> as well as the #fedimins covenant <https://fedimins.net/en/covenant/> which is still a work in progress.
#Fediverse #governance #fediverseGovernance #covenant #mastoAdmin #FreedomNotFear
What about E2EE in social networks? Would that be a desirable thing too?
@Konstantin Macher @Freedom not Fear @Erik Kemp πͺπΊ
@Jan @IFTAS
#Fediverse #governance #fediverseGovernance #covenant #mastoAdmin #FreedomNotFear
@chris I personally find E2EE very desirable in social networks, but different platforms have made design decisions that are favorable or hostile to it, based on their design philosophies.
#Fediverse , for example, in focusing on instances instead of users as being primary is not very compatible with E2EE.
And that runs right up against the above post about governance.
If the platform’s philosophy is one about promoting the governance of users, that’s going to run up against these issues of privacy and encryption, just as happens in world governments all the time.
So there’s a tradeoff to be had, distributed privacy vs centralized governance.
I find E2EE desirable in social networks, but an awful lot of people prefer governing instances.
@chris the protocol underlying the Fediverse, ActivityPub, is centered around instances as part of its core design.
It’s like how the protocol for the web, http, is centered around web servers.
So a person can’t build a system without instances and engage with fediverse. It’s incompatible. Every message in the system would begin with, “So, what instance do we talk to to reach you?”
This is why alternatives like BlueSky and Nostr are in different worlds: their underlying protocols work in incompatible ways.
"This is why alternatives like BlueSky and Nostr are in different worlds"
OK but you properly know that this worlds have allready bridges ... and that they may come even closer together...
ActivityPub is not the only protocol of the Fedi and even AP is a moving target... it gets improved on and on.. so things are not that settled as you write
do you know fedi projects with nomadic ID ?
At that point it comes down to what you mean by “Fediverse”, then.
When many people use that word they mean specifically projects using ActivityPub.
So what do you mean by that word?
"what you mean by βFediverseβ "
Ok - this could be a longer story.... to make it short: it is NOT Mastodon and NOT just ActivityPub
The terms has changed in it's meaning also over the years. It did not exist at the beginning of federated Networks. Just as different federated Networks came up that even could interact with each other there come up the need also to finde terms for specific groups of this different networks. Some people made up words and they called one group the "THE FEDERATION" and an other group "THE FEDIVERSE"
Since I'm around here i use a software which belonged to both groups. At that time it was called Friendika - than #Friendica further developed to #Hubzilla. Actually it was at that time the only software which could "understand" and "talk" more than one protocol. Only because this Software had the ability to talk to different Networks this way - the two different terms where established.
So the ability to "talk" und "understand" more than just one protocol is the birth of that what we call today the Fediverse. This understanding is fundamental. Do you follow?
History has not come to it's end, development goes on and how ever you call the protocol which makes thing work what people want, it will be used...
Hubzilla which uses also the protocol ZOT / Nomad has the function of a nomadic ID since 2015.
The truly 100% AP app #Streams has also the function of a nomadic ID - use it :-)
@JJTech
Ha, like I said, I asked what YOU meant by it. A TON of people use the term to mean something different, and that’s OK so long as we can figure out what different people mean by the word.
But still, in your reply I see a lot of what the word, to you, ISN’T but I still don’t see what to you it IS.
To you it isn’t just Mastodon or AP, but what IS it?
how do you like that?
but
an awful lot of people prefer governing instances.
really ? I'm not sure about that at all
#Fediverse , for example, in focusing on instances instead of users ....
this is not a rule of "the Fediverse" , right ? - it just happens that there are quid a few fedi projects and instances which don't offer you the right to get hold over all the keys which make up your ID in the network...
This is not a design decision by "the Fediverse" but by some coders who use protocols and set up their projects in a certain way...
Now shouldn't we care about that and claim that we want to have things different here than the majority of the Fedi projects handle things right now?
If the answer is "NO" - what are the reasons to make a difference here?
@Christian Pietsch π @Konstantin Macher @Freedom not Fear @Erik Kemp πͺπΊ @Jan @IFTAS @marqle
#fnf23 #Fediverse #governance #fediverseGovernance #covenant #mastoAdmin #FreedomNotFear