🚨Dangerously out of control🚨
#Braverman: "I do not believe these marches are merely a cry for help for #Gaza. They're an assertion of primacy by Islamists, of the kind we are more used to seeing in Northern #Ireland."
#Sunak failed to force the Met to ban a pro #Palestine ceasefire march, so his attack dog Cruella reacted, prompting the #FarRight to tell its supporters to protest against the march.
Why is it wrong to call for peace on Armistice Day? 💢 🤔
@AnthonyFStevens the counter argument is that it's not really a call for peace, which is what the quote pointed out.
The call is for a ceasefire & a two state solution.
This has been the goal of those who support a #Palestinian state & #Israel's right to exist.
The issue is this doesn't suit the #Zionist or #Hamas extremists who need conflict to remain relevant.
@AnthonyFStevens but that's not an option on the table in any realistic way.
So since ceasefire & two state solution is not an option, any call for a ceasefire ends up being, for all practical considerations, a call for maintaining the crap that's going on now.
It's like saying you're calling for jumping out of the airplane without a parachute to grow wings and fly down to the earth. Well, since that's not actually going to happen you're just calling for jumping out to plummet to the ground.
And that's what the quote above was pointing out.
Jumping out of a plane & hoping to grow wings is an impossibility.
A ceasefire in #Gaza & a two state solution, whilst being very difficult is achievable.
The sticking point is the unfettered support given to the extremist #Zionists supported by the #US.
When you add in the support given to the extremist #Hamas, you get to the impasse we see today.
We all know & can see this, but when will a mechanism be employed to end this utter madness? 🤷🏾♂️
@AnthonyFStevens yes, jumping out of a plant and hoping to grow wings is an impossibility, just like a two sided ceasefire and two state solution.
That's my point :)
No, it's not achievable. We have generations of history showing that to be true. It was tried over and over again. At this point it's simply foolish to keep believing in the thing that failed every single time it was tried.
Sadly.
So, given that reality, what's the best path forward? What's the best out of only bad options?
Just clinging to the solution that we know doesn't work is not going to serve anyone well, well except for those who benefit from selling that snake oil.
I've heard similar all my life. "It's impossible" "This isn't how things are done" "You're wasting your time" etc. None of it has ever bothered or stopped me because I realised the way to get things done is to remove obstacles, not to accept they can't be removed.
I suppose it's the difference between those who can, & those who just talk.
The obstacles to peace in Palestine are the Zionists & Hamas. Remove both & you're 80% of the way to peace. It's about have the vision & drive. 🤷🏾♂️
@AnthonyFStevens but an awful lot of people who talk actually can't!
Again, this is the example of growing wings when jumping out of the airplane. Some things are flat out impossible, and it's important not miss those.
But again, I think you're wrong, but even IF you're right, the Zionists you refer to won't be removed. I'm personally pretty skeptical that Hamas will be removed either, no matter how much blood is shed in the attempt to get there.
So with those two in doubt, we're 80% farther from peace than you're imagining.
We need to respond to that reality and figure out what the best way forward is, given that.
Otherwise we're talking about solutions that only apply to a fantasy world that doesn't actually exist.
Where would we like to fly once we grow wings? Well, since we're not going to grow wings it's not a very useful question.
Thinking the "won't" be removed is very different to "can't" be removed. You're placing an absolute on something which is anything but.
If mankind took your view to all things in life, nothing would've ever changed in the past, the present or would ever change in the future.
I wouldn't have achieved 75% of what I have in life if I'd listened to those telling me it's impossible, don't, can't, shouldn't etc.
Hamas & the Zionists can be removed. Removing them merely requires a plan.
Ok, so what's your plan?
Because people have executed plans time and time again that haven't lead to peace. It sounds like you'd be saying, "But this time is different," which is what was always said before.
So what's your plan that really will make this time different?
I'm especially interested in what your plan is for removing Hamas since that strikes me as particularly thorny.
50% of resolving an issue is realising you've got an issue in the first place.
25% is creating a viable plan.
25% is executing the plan with contingencies.
Removing the extremists on both sides is the plan. Cutting them off from their support base & isolating them is the way to do it.
Then there has to be a workable solution that the vast majority can agree on. As things stand the most workable is a two state solution.
1. Agree the border.
2. Who gets Jerusalem if anyone?
How do you plan to cut extremists off from their support base and isolate them?
Once a workable plan is agreed, create a quorum of people to remove the extremists from power.
Their support base is whoever funds their extremism. Cut the cord & they become a small isolated group, with little social or civic influence.
They can't fight a whole united nation who just want peace & an end to war.
But that's circling back to, what's the plan? :)
Or what's the plan to get agreement on a plan, I suppose.
This is the problem. I don't think it's possible to have a workable plan, just as I don't think it's possible to grow wings.
I don't think there is a whole united nation that just wants peace and an end to war, and I see no plan to get there.
@AnthonyFStevens and what if it's really not possible?
What if it really is like trying to grow wings, seriously just not an option on the table?
We can work with such a reality and try to get through it as well as possible, but we can't so long as we're denying that unfortunate reality.
I still don't hear a workable plan here, just vague ideas. I don't know how to get from here to there, and I think it's not possible, but these vague ideas don't bridge the gap.
It's absolutely possible. Part of the issue is also separating the negative people like you from the can do people.
I've observed as all you've done is erect barriers instead of putting that energy into finding ways to remove them.
Your negativity can become infectious, so people like yourself who're not helping need to be removed from the equation & isolated, so you don't affect others
I'm pretty sure if your life depended on finding a solution, your negative attitude would change
@volkris
It doesn't need a whole united nation, just enough to tip the balance.
The alternative is to be defeatist, never try to find a solution & leave everyone to self destruct.
I'd prefer to try & keep trying until a solution is found. It just takes a majority to get on board.
Failure & defeat should never be an option, when the key is merely finding a workable solution & executing the plan.