People really should pay attention to what Elon produces but won’t use.
Now that I think about it, I’ve only seen Elon Musk drive his cars.
He has someone else get the first chip implanted in their brain (neurolink)
He hasn’t been to space on his own rockets despite owning a space company that will supposedly get his ass to Mars (spaceX)
At least Captain Nemo went down with his ship to see the Titanic.. and subsequently stayed down there, but I digress
Between Tesla FSD killing customers and neurolink chip implants killing monkeys, Elon definitely gives off Lord Farquad vibes
@hasani Tesla FSD didn't kill customers.
Customers misused FSD to their own detriment, against warnings not to use it that way.
I know the description of FSD killing customers is sexier and gets more clicks, but the facts matter sometimes.
@volkris customers used the product the way it was advertised
@hasani but not as it was sold or as instructed.
A person overlooking their particular instructions as they try to emulate their own interpretation of some advertisement is, if anything, still their own bad decision, and not the product going off to kill them.
@volkris In some quarters its called false advertising. FSD actually is more dangerous because it lulls the driver into a false sense of security. And the driver has to be prepared to take over at a moments notice.
Rather than blame the customers, I blame Tesla for putting out a product that is half baked at best. The fact that FSD is constantly crashing into things it shouldn't (like big red fire trucks) means it should have been pulled from the market
@hasani If you want to charge Tesla with false advertising, then great. But keep the false in false advertising.
If they falsely advertised a product that they weren't selling that just highlights that the customer bore responsibility to use the product that they did buy as per warnings and instructions, not treat it as if the false product was what they purchased.
I blame the drivers because at the end of the day, on the road, we need to emphatically put the responsibility on drivers to operate their vehicles safely. Anyone getting behind the wheel must bear responsibility for their decisions as they operate their multi-ton, high speed machines.
Tesla's product seems to have done exactly what it was sold as doing, including relying on drivers being prepared to take over at a moment's notice.
You can charge Tesla with false advertising, but it's ridiculous to go down this road of decrying a product as not doing something it wasn't supposed to do based on advertisements that you say were advertising something not being sold.
Yeah, let's blame the driver because at the end of the day they made bade decisions.
@volkris But ultimately we are skirting the real issue here. What we have been debating is the symptom of a larger problem here.
As the saying goes, “A fish rots from the head down”.
Elon Musk subscribes to the “Longtermism” philosophy in that everything that he does is justified as long as it fits his view of "saving humanity” in the long term. He truly believes that he (and only he apparently) can save humanity from accidents if cars could drive themselves.
@volkris So that means only the future matters, not the present. As long as he gets to his self driving goals, it is all worth it. Doesn't matter how many people get hurt. It is all for the greater good.
People like that are extremely dangerous as they will lie, cheat, steal because to them the ends justify the means.
So to bring this back around to the main point, Tesla has put all of the risk onto its unwitting customers and the public who didn't signup for this beta test.
@volkris Take this case a little more than a year ago where FSD caused a pileup in San Francisco. And phantom braking is a thing that happens with FSD *and* with regular autopilot
@hasani wow, it sounds like you're striving to ignore the simple fact of drivers driving their cars and being responsible for doing so, apparently because you don't like a public figure?
FSD didn't decide to drive. A driver decided to drive and turn on that feature.
One reason it's so important to hold drivers responsible for driving is specifically to caution them against causing exactly this sort of accident.
I personally don't care about Musk, so it's not compelling to ask someone like me to ignore the simple facts in the course of trying to make some point about that troll.
If that's your hobby horse, then great! But it seems pretty antisocial to me, and it will result in more crashes.
@volkris that whooshing sound you hear is you missing the point.
My like or dislike for Musk has nothing to do with the actual facts I have presented in good faith.
A quick question, do you own a Tesla? If so, have you experienced phantom braking? If phantom braking causes an accident because it slowed down sharply, is the fault of the driver for simply turning it on? In other words on the scale of responsibility between customer and manufacturer, where do you land on?
@hasani If your like or dislike for Musk has nothing to do with it, then why do you bring him up at all?
Not to mention, it's not like he has unilateral control of the publicly traded company.
I HAVE had phantom breaking in gas cars. Sometimes breaks misbehave. There's nothing new under the sun there.
Drivers are responsible for being able to handle their cars, even though they're imperfect.
Again, if you want to blame Tesla for false advertising, great! If the advertising was as misleading as you say, then Tesla is to blame for false advertising.
But they didn't sell customers an autonomous vehicle, and they warned every driver not to treat their purchase as if it was autonomous.
The car did what it was sold as doing. No half baked defect there, the driver got what he bought, and some chose to misuse the product despite warnings not to.
Tesla is responsible for its advertising. It's not responsible for customers choosing to misuse what they bought.
@volkris I don't absolve the drivers from blame. My point is that Tesla put out a product that doesn't do what they say it does and solely blaming the customer is a cop out.
Tesla made the choice to fake the infamous full self driving video (where it stated that the person was only in the drivers seat for legal reasons). Tesla is quick to blame their customers for using their products in the way they were advertised when accidents occur. In other words, its never their fault.