volkris @volkris@qoto.org

@mnutty

But that's not the metric that a court should be judged by.

The court is emphatically not a democratic institution and is in fact set up to be a check on the power of public consensus.

That the court doesn't match public consensus is the entire point.

@ProPublica

@seachanger who's waving off these examples as irrelevant?

Not me.

Fact I would hold them up as examples where the people involved really need to consider whether their actions are harming their own causes.

I think they might be relevant for the wrong reasons.

But sure, mute away. That's how social media works.

@lazyb0y but it's not though.

Once you bend over your money to someone else, it's not your money anymore, it's theirs.

That's the whole point.

Anyway, whatever, my point still stands: If you are overpaying CEOs you should stop. That's really up to you.

I would say that you are probably not paying CEOs at all, but again, if you are paying CEOs too much money, stop it.

@grumble209 @trevorflowers

@lazyb0y unless you're buying CEOs... you're not.

These companies are the ones buying CEOs. You're just buying their products when they make things you judge to be worth buying.
@trevorflowers @grumble209

@jumbanho right, I said RCTs are indirect, and you disagreed while describing how indirect they are :)

Yes, you laid out nicely that RCTs are indirect. If you're continuing to disagree, I don't know why.

At this point I guess you just don't realize that the study did what you were asking for, and I don't know whether that's because you don't understand the study or you don't know what you're asking for.

I'm not sure where your disconnect is there.

@chrisgeidner I really don't think "government can't push private groups to silence speech instead of doing it itself" is as fringe an argument as you believe

@seachanger I think many overestimate the role of public demonstrations in getting out the viewpoints of the demonstraters.

Heck, often enough the demonstrations are used by opponents to push back against their causes. They're often counterproductive.

So since I don't think demonstrations do much good in amplifying voices in the first place, I don't think these examples really represent powers silencing voices. They're mainly responding to actions, separate from voices, in ways that are often viewpoint agnostic.

If anything, the real acts of silencing seem to be pushing back against false propaganda, which isn't the most unreasonable thing depending on the nature of the particular case.

More about accountability than punishment, as they say.

@seachanger well, what specific examples would you cite?

@ColinOatley AFAIK that's not misleading; it's what the study flat out found.

The inclusion of those observations did nothing to change the conclusion of the study, making no difference.

@laurahelmuth

@seachanger well right, because it's not a particularly substantial element of the story.

In peace time (should that ever exist) folks can sit around in faculty lounges trading ideas about abstractions like power imbalances, but those theoretical exchanges really take a back seat when there are real and substantial issues to address.

When a person needs food we need to talk about getting them food.
It's something of a distraction to stop and discuss a theoretical model of interpersonal engagement that they may fit into when they're salivating at the sight of a desperately needed loaf of bread.

@AlexSanterne

I mean, I did.

Your perspective is just so detached from reality that it leads to nonsense.

But that's social media for you.

@jumbanho well right.

I don't know what your point is at this point.

You asked for a study looking at indirect measures of causality, which this study did, and then you asked for one that was even less direct, for some reason, and now you're describing how RCTs are indirect, which sounds to me like proving that the study did what you're asking for...

It just sounds more and more like you really just want a study to confirm your biases.

@AlexSanterne

Firstly, you have your facts wrong. So many things aren't launched into space because it's cool, but because that's where you have to go to execute certain goals.

NASA doesn't spend a ton of money to launch a space probe because it's cool, but because a space probe needs to be in... space.

But secondly, people need cool things in their lives! EVEN IF we were launching rockets just because it's cool, that in itself isn't a disqualifier.

I wonder if we could shut down something you personally think is really cool to save the resources and costs it involves.

But no, cool things are cool. That is a benefit not to be overlooked.

@fredbrooker@witter.cz

@jumbanho well a RCT isn't necessarily a direct measure of causality. Just because you change this and see that result doesn't mean this change caused that result.

But I'm also not sure why you're so interested in bringing in less direct indicators, as if being farther from the situation necessarily improves the observation.

@lazyb0y

We? You're paying a CEO? Maybe you should stop.

@grumble209 @trevorflowers

@lazyb0y yeah, that's the sort of picture special interest groups like to paint, but it's not really how CEOs work given the legal environment they operate in.

It makes for a good narrative that plays on peoples' emotions, but it's basically just manipulation.

Ask yourself, do you think a corporation WANTs to lose money? Probably not, right? So why would a corporation throw money at a CEO if they don't have to?

They'd lose money and give up profits if they did. So it's not a realistic story.

@trevorflowers @grumble209

@jumbanho exactly: as per the SciAm article, the Cochrane study did "assemble the results from many studies that come at causation less directly".

And the conclusion was that doing so was "quantitatively unable to conclude anything about the effectiveness of mask mandates"

@SonofaGeorge this IS division of powers.

The president is to nominate but senators hold the power to approve if the nominee is compelling.

@BlueWaver22

@fredbrooker@witter.cz

and rockets. Don't forget rockets :)

@AlexSanterne