Q.U.I.N.N.
heinlein-taleb extremism but as a serious model of government

that shit would be wild as hell
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Q.U.I.N.N.
technically heinleining is already talebian. you had to stake your personal safety to become a veteran before you get voting power. so its actually eerily compatible :blobcathyperthinking:
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Pat

@icedquinn

Similar to the dystopian government in Starship Troopers

qoto.org/@Pat/1081323696798403

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Q.U.I.N.N.
@Pat you know the producer of the film never read the book right :blobcatderpy:
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Pat

@icedquinn

Neither did I (I think). I read some heinlein a long time ago. Which book was it?

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Q.U.I.N.N.
@Pat "starship troopers" :blobcatgoogly:
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Pat
Follow

@icedquinn

Neither did I. In fact, I forgot that the film was based on one Heinlein's novels when I posted my toot here.

When you say "heinlein-taleb", what are you referring to?

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Q.U.I.N.N.
@Pat nassim nicholas taleb wrote a series of books talking about people's general inability or lack of education in handling randomness, tendency to punt risk, making policies without skin in the game (ex. a banker that can loan money to students and is fully protected from default risk)
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Pat

@icedquinn

Moral hazard.

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Q.U.I.N.N.
@Pat heinlein's starship troopers posits you should get no say over the monopoly of force if you never put yourself at risk, but also says enlistment is an inalienable right that cannot be denied, and soldiers can walk from the force at any given moment. officers are also promoted through enlistment and are not a special caste.

everyone is kept in a mexican standoff where management can't waste soldiers lives with d-day bullshit or everyone under them walks and the enlisted are kept from going AWOL without a good reason because they can't vote if they do.
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neo
@icedquinn @Pat do they keep voting rights if they leave for a good reason a-la a d-day plan?
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Q.U.I.N.N.
@neo @Pat no.
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neo
@icedquinn @Pat that seems a little unfair
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Q.U.I.N.N.
@neo @Pat maybe but the point of game theoretical threats is not having to invoke them. since they can't put them in jail if everyone says we aren't doing that shit they have to come up with a new plan.

it's also a book where they're being accosted by space bugs so it doesn't really come up
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Sexy Moon
@icedquinn @Pat what's the catch
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Listens to Baroque while coding murder.exe :newt:
@icedquinn @Pat it’s more fun. In the novel, Service doesn’t mean military service specifically. If you’re unfit for military for whatever reason or there’s just no demand for more troops, the state will find you some job that fits your abilities.
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Q.U.I.N.N.
@newt @Pat technically its still a military job because its constitutionally illegal to reject a recruit :ablobcatderpy:
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Listens to Baroque while coding murder.exe :newt:
@icedquinn @Pat ok, now imagine this: you enlist for service in hopes to obtain political rights and then…

You are forced into being a reddit jannie for five years.
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Q.U.I.N.N.
@newt @Pat yeah. there's a lot of crippled people who are logistical staff and other bullshit. you're literally not allowed to eject someone from the service for anything other than like.. treason and insubordination
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Listens to Baroque while coding murder.exe :newt:
@icedquinn @Pat nah, Heinlein mentioned advanced prosthetics. Do you remember that legless recruitment officer from the movie? In the book, Rico actually met him again after enlisting and that guy was walking down the street just fine on his own. The idea was that this lad was used to scare the weaker potential recruits away.
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Q.U.I.N.N.
@newt @Pat i don't remember advanced prosthetics in that one but they do show up in moon is a harsh mistress :blobcatthonkang:

they do try to talk people out of recruiting though.
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Listens to Baroque while coding murder.exe :newt:
@icedquinn @Pat it’s a short scene in the book, half a page maybe. The gist of it is that Rico can’t believe it because the guy shakes his hand and it seems just as real as the real thing.
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Q.U.I.N.N.
@newt @Pat i do find it interesting the confluence of warriors tend to believe congress should not be allowed to either exist or issue military orders (Heinlein, Smedley)

heinlein played with quite a few ideas though. it's amusing he's maligned as being a jingoist warhawk and huxley is celebrated even though huxley was a member of the club and heinlein was like :blobcatglowsticks: let's have peace and crippled governments (Moon is a Harsh Mistress) and socialist-libertarianism (For Us The Living) and go to fuckin space WOOOO
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Listens to Baroque while coding murder.exe :newt:
@icedquinn @Pat maybe I should re-read him. Haven’t touched his books since my teens.
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ruin

@icedquinn@blob.cat @newt@stereophonic.space @Pat@qoto.org Heinlein in the end was just a mentally I’ll pervert (see: I Will Fear No Evil)

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Q.U.I.N.N.
@a7 @Pat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Will_Fear_No_Evil :blobcatread: i didn't know he went transhuman in the end
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ruin

@icedquinn@blob.cat @Pat@qoto.org it’s hardly trans human novel it’s just straight up fapping material. It’s still readable and not bad because heinlein but really it’s mostly jerk off material. I praise all of his other stuff I’ve read star ship troopers, moon is a harsh mistress, stranger in a strange land might be one of my all time favorites, but this is straight jerking book.

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Q.U.I.N.N.
@a7 @Pat might be related to the part where he died before editing it :blobcatgoogly:

for us the living was scrapped too and released posthumously if i recall. its weird that he mused about socred.
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ruin

@icedquinn@blob.cat @Pat@qoto.org I read the uncut Stranger in a Strange Land, ya some perverted stuff, but it served the story. It's almost the whole book thats like "ok i get it bro you are jerking off right now", theres like half a chapter dedicated to a woman talking about her happiest memory of being gang raped.

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ruin

@icedquinn@blob.cat @Pat@qoto.org also he didn’t die before it was published, but he was severely sick for two years as mentioned in Wikipedia article. He lived for another 18 years after it was published, just fyi.

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whiteline
@a7 @icedquinn @Pat a ton of science fiction from the '70s was weird and sexual though, it was the spirit of the times
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ruin

@whiteline@shitposter.club @icedquinn@blob.cat @Pat@qoto.org its not just weird and sexual, its a straight up jacking book

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whiteline
@a7 @icedquinn @Pat I remember reading a book from that era that had human / dolphin sex for absolutely no reason whatsoever
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Q.U.I.N.N.
@whiteline @a7 @Pat ah yes. uplifts wouldn't return to scifi for a long time.
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modpod
@icedquinn @Pat @newt have not read a heinlin book since the puppet masters. that one was really good, though.

which one are you guys talking about ?
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Q.U.I.N.N.
@modpod @Pat @newt starship troopers :blobcatgoogly:
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modpod
@icedquinn @Pat @newt ohhh! I had no idea he actually wrote that, I just thought it was a stoner movie.

Cool.. *goes to the eye and or archive.org and looks..*
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Listens to Baroque while coding murder.exe :newt:
@modpod @icedquinn @Pat the movie is pretty dope. But it misses the point of the novel so hard, it’s not even in the same galaxy.
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modpod
@newt @Pat @icedquinn then i'll just stick to the novel, i much prefer reading anyway. :D good to know, thank you
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Illumicati (MOVED)
@Pat @newt @icedquinn @Pat
>scare the weaker potential recruits away
Why? They still have "skin in the game" whether or not they are "weak".
This feels like "might makes right".
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Listens to Baroque while coding murder.exe :newt:
@Hyolobrika @icedquinn @Pat because Heinlein hates pussies
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Q.U.I.N.N.
@newt @Hyolobrika @Pat they have too many soldiers and don't want more of them. but they can't legally stop you. so they try to haze people out of it.
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Q.U.I.N.N.
@newt @Hyolobrika @Pat
:blobcatsalute: i'm a fat diabetic slob i am here to defend us from xeno scum
:blobfoxdeadinside: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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Listens to Baroque while coding murder.exe :newt:
@icedquinn @Hyolobrika @Pat I mean, being consumed by aliens and giving them diarrhoea might give your comrades a huge tactical advantage :comfyderp:
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Illumicati (MOVED)
@Pat @icedquinn @Pat @newt but you said that they can give you come other form of service
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Q.U.I.N.N.
@Hyolobrika @Pat @newt they can/do yeah.

i'd probably be a missile tech or some shit :blobcatgoogly:
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Pat

@icedquinn

"Nice pussy."

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Illumicati (MOVED)
@Pat @newt @icedquinn @Pat
>"pussies" don't get to vote
Okay. That confirms my suspicions.
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