@hinindil @ProstasiaInc I can't speak for the org, but I imagine there are limitations to what's considered a likeness. It's very hard to identify a specific person based on text content, especially if that content is kept private

@elliot @ProstasiaInc What would be if they were, for any reason, identifiable?

I discussed this exact topic once in an anti-C forum (GSA) after there was a similar case at a school in Spain where these images were distributed. For the case, see here: https://www.businessinsider.com/fake-naked-pictures-young-girls-ai-spark-outrage-spanish-town-2023

The question that arises is whether "pornographic content" would include stuff like a diary which are not meant for sexual stimulation but rather to sort ones thoughts. But I guess that's stuff for courts to decide. When it comes to images and videos and stuff, it is clear that that's intolerable.

@hinindil @ProstasiaInc Personally, I think allowing courts to make guesses about the context of certain content is incredibly dangerous (i.e., in some countries, harmless pictures of kids magically become illegal if a court decides you have those pictures for a sexual purpose), so I wouldn't support treating a diary and porn differently if the content is identical.

However, I also don't see a significant risk of harm when taboo content is created in a non-exploitative manner and kept private, so I think justice systems need to reevaluate how they handle cases like that, regardless of the content's context (or the type of content). That's not relevant in the case Prostasia was talking about since the method of creation involved massive violations of consent and professional ethics.

As I said, I can't speak for the organization, so these are just personal views.

@elliot @ProstasiaInc 1/x
In my Cyberlaw course at my University (I am a CS student, not a lawyer or even a law student) our professor said that in criminal trials, to evaluate the individual guilt of a defendant, one need to consider the circumstances of the offence, including the motive of the defendant.

@elliot @ProstasiaInc 2 / x In German law, one of the ways in which murder is distinguished from manslaughter is the motivation. To cite from German Criminal Code, § 211: "Mörder ist, wer aus Mordlust, zur Befriedigung des Geschlechtstriebs, aus Habgier oder sonst aus niedrigen Beweggründen, [...] einen Menschen tötet." (can be approximately translated as A murderer is anyone who kills a person out of murderous lust, to satisfy the desire for sex, out of greed or otherwise for base motives [...].)

@elliot @ProstasiaInc 3 / x
So, courts do generally speaking know how to assess motive and circumstances of an offence.

However, especially when it comes to, as German law calls it, offence against sexual self-determination courts / judges are IMHO not trained enough to properly evaluate the whole context. This is not limited to CP, also, there are still cases where in cases of rape / similar offences, the defendant is declared innocent because of long-disproven rape-myths.
So, I don't think that this is not really a legal problem but rather a problem of missing knowledge.

@elliot @ProstasiaInc 4/4
In the case that Prostasia presented, it's clear that this behaviour is intolerable. Whether or not it should be called "sexual abuse" is debatable, because legally, the creation of CP and the sexual abuse of a child are entirely different things. However, that does not make the offence of this psychatrist less appalling.

@Trashy @raerae @ProstasiaInc @pv6hd8ws6v

I think it all comes down to the degree of specificity, the visceral nature of a visual image, and a lack of consent.

Writing a fantast is less "visceral" (usually) and can be more easily made anonymous than a specifically crafted image made to look exactly like a real person. The there's the danger of, it being digital media, the ai images being released to the general public.

While the intent, I'm sure, was to keep it private, the risk of violating the privacy (and trust) of the subject, I think, takes priority here considering how easy it is to let that material leak.

Just my two cents.

@Sniffler @pv6hd8ws6v @Trashy @ProstasiaInc Yeah if he was writing erotica about the subjects' experiences, for instance, that would also be a violation of his code of ethics, but it I doubt it would be leaked.

@raerae @pv6hd8ws6v @Trashy @ProstasiaInc Exactly and there's still a degree of anonymity in written works.

If I write about "Amanda," anyone not familiar with me or (in this hypothetical) my client list won't have any clue who "Amanda" is or what she looks like. Well unless I include graphic descriptors, surnames, and other very identifying info. But still a diary can't be leaked or hacked as easily as digital media.