@adiz @don @rbe_expert I've read the page some time ago, when I was interested in it. So, in your oppinion because there are many definitions of something means that something does not exist? Fine. Replace fascism with a long list of verifiable wrongs and crimes ruZZia has done... I already said I don't care for labels. The labes are just shortcuts.

@extrn@qoto.org Okay, excellent, so you finally answered my core question originally:

If Russia wasn't "fascist", would that change your opinion of things?

So, I assume the answer, then, is "no"? @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert I don't understand what it means ruZZia not being fascist. RuZZia has killed innocent civilians in Ukraine, has bombed shelters, schools, kindergardens and hospitals. Has destroyed civil infrastructure, has deported children from the occupied territories, has killed and raped and tortured prisoners. Has burned Ukrainian textbooks and has prosecuted ukrainian teachers. Has turned on its own citizen, sending them into prison for long time for even a minor critique of the war (which they officially refuse to call "war")... The ruZZian big bussiness is divided by several oligarchs - friends of tzar putler... In my oppinion all this is evil motivated by personal greed and vanity of the tzar... By his dreams of a great empire full of serfs... So I don't understand the question. What is supposed to not be true?

@extrn@qoto.org I asked, regardless of your hangup on "fascism", if this was being done by any other country than Russia (or, if Russia wasn't "fascist", as you claim [whatever that means, it does not matter]), would you feel so similarly? @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert I haven't even started yet with all the ruZZian crimes of the last 50 years. The most awful crime IMNSHO is the disregard of the individual. Treating their own people like meat that exists only for the sake of advancing the goals of the tzar. This absolutist mentality was erradicated in the west a long time ago. So I can see North Korea or China very well in this role. US had done some pretty outrageous things in Latin America and the Middle East. Britain in the past too. But you are not going to turn full ruZZian troll here asking: "And what about..."? Right? That's not an afgument at all. putler has destroyed the European security architecture existing since the ww2 and I, as an European and a citizen of a country, that's a victim of the ruZZian imperialism will not play with hypotheticals in my ivory tower while there is an acive ruZZian plot to destabilize my own country and enslave me and my family. Fuck ruZZia, fuck putler, prigozin and the whole Kremlin. Let tgem burn!

@extrn@qoto.org So, this all really just comes down to the fact that you hate Russia/Russians and are a Eurocentric chauvinist? @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert not at all. I would feel the same about any country killing people that want to be free. It just so happens that I have a particulary long history with ruZZia an md ruZZian lies

@extrn@qoto.org What do you think should be done to a country like Russia for what they're doing? @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert Nothing *should* be done to a country. The tzar will fall off a window when they lose the war. There will be a brief struggle between the oligarchs (because in their authoritarian government there are no rules of succession) and then a fission process will occur, splitting Chechnia and other parst of ruZZia. It is possible China to take Siberia. So what they deserve will happen all by itself. What should be done is just one thing - help them lose the war

@extrn@qoto.org When do you imagine all of this will happen? @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert It depends on the western support for Ukraine. The west has been very shy in that support. It is telling when you review the support by % of GDP: the former eastern bloc leads: All small countries that know what to expect from the empire. Meanwhile the likes of Macron and Sholtz are playing politics an "talking on the phone" and "keeping the channels open". Clowns. US has their own reasons for their support - they already carried the burden of one cold war - perhaps they don't want another.

@adiz @don @rbe_expert I can only hope this will be resolved quickly - within 5 years. But I am afraid it will not. So instead of doing something productive we are paying a ruZZian tax - because the fucking ruZZians are stupid and can't understand the first thing about dictatorships...

@extrn@qoto.org "Paying a [Russian] tax"? @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert the economy will be working on producing weapons instead of more productive things. I call it ruZZian tax. The war can end tomorrow, if putler withdraws from Ukraine, but that's impossible for him. He's manucered himself into a corner - if he withdraws, he'll fall from the nearest window... And there is no way anyone recognizing an illegal annexation. Just a little solidarity and support is required. Unfortunately I see a lot of weasel words and careful calcularltions... I hope at some point the west understandd how important this is.

@extrn
Russians aren't stupid, most are just brainwashed and we've never had strong democratic institutions and democratic tradition to counter the authoritarian power grab to begin with.
Making Russia lose the war isn't too hard, it'll probably happen this year, but what's next? Fixing Russia in it's current form isn't possible. Splitting it into a dozen of smaller states the size of Poland like your said is probably the best way, each of these states will barely have the resources to wage wars and if some of them will get just as corrupt, some probably won't. But who and how is going to implement it? It's a complex task that has to be carried out for decades and no one in the West is exactly eager to do that. Just leaving it be is also not an option — having a civil war in a country that has stashes of Soviet-era military equipment is hardly better than what we have today. I personally doubt that Russia even has any operational strategic nuclear weapons. Servicing those requires huge sums of money, at the same time there is no visible output. I know how corrupt this country is very well so those funds most probably got completely stolen. But still, not a single person in the world is going to put their money on it. No one is going to act as if there are no nuclear weapons. Even if there are none, there are nuclear power plants, catastrophe on one of those in a war-torn country doesn't sound too good, right?
The West, including the US, is not interested in all that, they'll be fine with Russia as it is and will probably do everything to keep it together, just replacing Putin with someone who is slightly less nuts, so they can get back to business as usual as soon as possible. But in this case this cycle is bound to repeat itself again and again.
@adiz @don @rbe_expert

@extrn@qoto.org I wouldn't exactly call the support "shy"---the United States has spent more on Ukraine in a year than they did over a decade in their war against Afghanistan. @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert USA still refuse to provide more effective weapons like ATACMS. Ukraine needs also abilities to hit deep inside ruZZian territory: to destroy airstrips for strategic bombers and training centers.

@extrn@qoto.org I don't want America to provide more money and weapons to Ukraine. I'm already upset that America has spent the amount of tax dollars on some corrupt Eastern European rotating-puppet-state that they have. @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert And what state that will be? And if you don't do it now, eventually you'll have to do it - just like in WW2. And it will be much more expensive. I think the american administration understands this very well, but they move slowly because of politics - both internal and international.

@adiz @don @rbe_expert Much like our government here. Officially - not sending weapons so the ruZZian puppets here are happy. Unofficially - top supporter of Ukraine during the initial critical phase of the war last year. That no doubt was the cause of the government fall. Since then we are under interim gov. managed by a pro-ruzzian president that creates chaos in the country and destroys the democratic institutions.

@extrn@qoto.org I don't think we will have to do anything at all. @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert Not helping Ukraine means ruZZia taking it. Then Moldova. Increasing their influence. Getting cocky. Starting shit in US (Trump). It is vastly more expensive than just proving them wrong right in the spot of their first transgression. (not that it's their first - they already escalated from human rights issues in the 2000s to the war with Georgia, to the poisonings on western soil, to annexations of Crimea and starting shit in Donbas, to elections interference in US and otger countries...). Much cheaper to kill 500000 orcs and be done with it.

@extrn@qoto.org We aren't taking anything. Pretty racist of you to refer to Slavic people's as "orcs". You're clearly a typical European supremacist. @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert Sad truth is, freedom has to be forcibly accuired. People that get their freedom by someone tend to lose it quickly. But the free nations has the obligation to support that struggle. Ukraine now has the potential to turn really free, independant and strong country. It will all pay out.