@don this is capitalist media, yes

@don 2014 was a Western-backed coup and the new Ukrainian regime then launched a war against the Donbas when they broke away because they didn't support the coup government.

@rbe_expert yep, and russia saved Donbas from regime by deploying concentration camps there. the only way to counter Western-backed coup is to genocide locals, if you not agree, you are russophobe

@don What does that have to do with the Ukrainian war against the Donbas from 2014 to 2021?

@don Why won't you support people's right to self-determination? Instead you support a central government that tried to subjugate people for not acquiescing to a coup government.

@rbe_expert @don Do you hear yourself? Why do you want then Ukraine as part of the ruZZian empire? You are clearly sick :)

@extrn @don I don't. I want NO empires.

@rbe_expert @don then why don't you support Ukrainian people, but instead you seem to support a fascist state engaged in war crines and genocide? Because ... capitalism... yeah, right. Useful idiot indeed.

@extrn@qoto.org What determines what state is "fascist" and what state isn't? If Russia wasn't "fascist", would that change your opinion of things? @rbe_expert@mastodon.social @don@liberdon.com

@adiz @don @rbe_expert there's a definition (several in fact) of fascism. You can look for traits that are present in all fascist states. For example:
- ultranazionalism
- cult to the "glorious past"
- identifyjng varius groups as "enemies of the people".
- taking the voice of "the people": saying what "the people" like or don't like, what they want or don't want, imposing your view on how the society should be organized - because you supposedly speak with "the people's voice"...

There are a bunch of other signs as well. Look it up somewhere. ruZZia is clearly a fascist state right now.

@extrn@qoto.org These seem like pretty vague and ambiguous "traits" that could ulteriorly be applied to many states irrespective of political and/or economic/socioeconomic organization. @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert you can start educating yoursef here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism

@extrn@qoto.org You do realize that entire page speaks about how ethereal the concept of "fascism" itself is, with many different groups having many different definitions---it's anything but concrete or objective. The article even begins with a quote from a historian saying:

trying to define 'fascism' is like trying to nail jelly to the wall

@adiz @don @rbe_expert I've read the page some time ago, when I was interested in it. So, in your oppinion because there are many definitions of something means that something does not exist? Fine. Replace fascism with a long list of verifiable wrongs and crimes ruZZia has done... I already said I don't care for labels. The labes are just shortcuts.

@extrn@qoto.org Okay, excellent, so you finally answered my core question originally:

If Russia wasn't "fascist", would that change your opinion of things?

@adiz @don @rbe_expert I don't understand what it means ruZZia not being fascist. RuZZia has killed innocent civilians in Ukraine, has bombed shelters, schools, kindergardens and hospitals. Has destroyed civil infrastructure, has deported children from the occupied territories, has killed and raped and tortured prisoners. Has burned Ukrainian textbooks and has prosecuted ukrainian teachers. Has turned on its own citizen, sending them into prison for long time for even a minor critique of the war (which they officially refuse to call "war")... The ruZZian big bussiness is divided by several oligarchs - friends of tzar putler... In my oppinion all this is evil motivated by personal greed and vanity of the tzar... By his dreams of a great empire full of serfs... So I don't understand the question. What is supposed to not be true?

@extrn@qoto.org I asked, regardless of your hangup on "fascism", if this was being done by any other country than Russia (or, if Russia wasn't "fascist", as you claim [whatever that means, it does not matter]), would you feel so similarly? @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert I haven't even started yet with all the ruZZian crimes of the last 50 years. The most awful crime IMNSHO is the disregard of the individual. Treating their own people like meat that exists only for the sake of advancing the goals of the tzar. This absolutist mentality was erradicated in the west a long time ago. So I can see North Korea or China very well in this role. US had done some pretty outrageous things in Latin America and the Middle East. Britain in the past too. But you are not going to turn full ruZZian troll here asking: "And what about..."? Right? That's not an afgument at all. putler has destroyed the European security architecture existing since the ww2 and I, as an European and a citizen of a country, that's a victim of the ruZZian imperialism will not play with hypotheticals in my ivory tower while there is an acive ruZZian plot to destabilize my own country and enslave me and my family. Fuck ruZZia, fuck putler, prigozin and the whole Kremlin. Let tgem burn!

@extrn@qoto.org So, this all really just comes down to the fact that you hate Russia/Russians and are a Eurocentric chauvinist? @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert not at all. I would feel the same about any country killing people that want to be free. It just so happens that I have a particulary long history with ruZZia an md ruZZian lies

@extrn@qoto.org What do you think should be done to a country like Russia for what they're doing? @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert Nothing *should* be done to a country. The tzar will fall off a window when they lose the war. There will be a brief struggle between the oligarchs (because in their authoritarian government there are no rules of succession) and then a fission process will occur, splitting Chechnia and other parst of ruZZia. It is possible China to take Siberia. So what they deserve will happen all by itself. What should be done is just one thing - help them lose the war

@extrn@qoto.org When do you imagine all of this will happen? @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert It depends on the western support for Ukraine. The west has been very shy in that support. It is telling when you review the support by % of GDP: the former eastern bloc leads: All small countries that know what to expect from the empire. Meanwhile the likes of Macron and Sholtz are playing politics an "talking on the phone" and "keeping the channels open". Clowns. US has their own reasons for their support - they already carried the burden of one cold war - perhaps they don't want another.

@extrn@qoto.org I wouldn't exactly call the support "shy"---the United States has spent more on Ukraine in a year than they did over a decade in their war against Afghanistan. @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert USA still refuse to provide more effective weapons like ATACMS. Ukraine needs also abilities to hit deep inside ruZZian territory: to destroy airstrips for strategic bombers and training centers.

@extrn@qoto.org I don't want America to provide more money and weapons to Ukraine. I'm already upset that America has spent the amount of tax dollars on some corrupt Eastern European rotating-puppet-state that they have. @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert And what state that will be? And if you don't do it now, eventually you'll have to do it - just like in WW2. And it will be much more expensive. I think the american administration understands this very well, but they move slowly because of politics - both internal and international.

@extrn@qoto.org I don't think we will have to do anything at all. @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert Not helping Ukraine means ruZZia taking it. Then Moldova. Increasing their influence. Getting cocky. Starting shit in US (Trump). It is vastly more expensive than just proving them wrong right in the spot of their first transgression. (not that it's their first - they already escalated from human rights issues in the 2000s to the war with Georgia, to the poisonings on western soil, to annexations of Crimea and starting shit in Donbas, to elections interference in US and otger countries...). Much cheaper to kill 500000 orcs and be done with it.

@extrn@qoto.org We aren't taking anything. Pretty racist of you to refer to Slavic people's as "orcs". You're clearly a typical European supremacist. @don@liberdon.com @rbe_expert@mastodon.social

@adiz @don @rbe_expert I do not refer to slavic people as orcs. I'm slavic people... :) ruZZian rapists in Ukraine are orcs. Ask anyone ghat cares. .

@extrn @adiz @don From my perspective as a Marxist this whole war is a huge tragedy that didn't need to happen if the USSR's regime had not been revisionist Stalinists who decided to undemocratically dissolve itself to allow its bureaucracy to profit off of privatization. The Ukraine War is the result of capitalist imperialism of NATO / the West seeking to assimilate Russia and then China into its territory and control to protect itself against collapse.

@extrn @adiz @don This becomes obvious once you read this:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/

@rbe_expert @adiz @don we have a saying here that sounds like: "don't sell cucumbers to an old cucumberman". You are a hobbist marxist. I've lived through that shit... You are very much mistaken and wrong about many things. You are happy to be able to discuss your (backward) views in a free forum - a luxury you wouldn't have under any totalitarian ideology. According to Trotsky (for example) the likes of me will regretfully have to be exterminated :) I'd very much like that, obviously :))))

@extrn @adiz @don Please provide quote from Trotsky that you claim exists.