I love the all too rare conversations with my friend Stu. Talking about populism, liberalism and Conservatism and how most people who call themselves conservatives aren’t conservative at all, but taking a particular set of ideas and behaviours as an identity and then applying a populist approach. The term conservative ought to be reclaimed.
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@realmattseymour Same with liberals. Most people who call themselves liberals dont at all live up to the liberal ideals IMO. Its really just americans, their so far off course most of them its sad.
@freemo
True. but regarding the Americans I'd love to agree but for the state of things here in the UK where it's much the same.
@realmattseymour I have friends int he UK and spent a little tim ethere. While its not quite as bad as the US it is pretty bad there too in terms of absurdity of politics. Plus the application of your anti-weapon laws just looks insane to me. People getting arrested for screw drivers or knives and stuff.
personal views
Living in the UK and I do not think the arms laws are insane. Politics in general is insane for sure right now but that is true of pretty much everywhere.
On the topic on someone being liberal or conservative is from a frame of reference and on topic itself. Not everyone who claims to be liberal is liberal on all topics all the time. For instance a person can be liberal as in standing up for human rights but may have a religious bias which stops him/her from standing up for Gay rights.
A person may have strong views on animal cruelty but might be fine with it if the animals are being used to develop a cure for humans. Point is these are gray areas and not pure black and white. The moral compass itself is not the same for all individuals.
Democracy is meant to be that great equaliser which kind of and sort of blurs the lines but it is for this very reason I always say support your local candidate rather than any -ism or any party.
personal views
@techbolt My comments were mostly in regard to americans in this respect. So it is likely a bit more off base with the british.
Liberal in the broadest sense means "People should have the greatest degree of freedom possible without infringing on others". This generally means minimal regulations, maximal freedom of speech, weapons, etc. But of course NO ONE on the liberal side embodies that, rather much the opposite. It simply isnt liberal. In many ways american conservatives are more liberal than liberals if it werent for the whole racist streak towards minorities they got going on.
personal views
@techbolt Well thts what it means to be socially liberal. I was talking about politically liberal. Specifically a classic liberal rather than a neoliberal
personal views
@freemo
Interesting stuff... Yes what these labels mean and how they're applied is pretty variable. I also agree the temptation to call someone one thing and assume that predicts their behaviour/beliefs/ideology on everything is nonsense. I find it fascinating that the Republican party, for example, are almost entirely the opposite of what they used to be yet claim the same conservative basis. Much the same for the Conservative party in the UK.
@techbolt
personal views
Well our Tory chaps are unashamedly going back to their roots in my humble opinion. Economically they are doing all they can to ensure rich gets richer and poor gets poorer. Rich gets the choicest of education while poor gets educated to what rich want them to be educated in. Sad part is the opposition of labour is so pathetic that they are inherently helping the Tories by not doing the one job they are supposed to do - oppose.
Pardon my pessimism but we are "doomed".
personal views
I liked the David - George duo a lot and even voted for them. It's sad that Dave's legacy will now forever be Brexit.
personal views
@techbolt
Honestly I'm so fed up with Corbyn and his following.... Have to admit I supported him, ignored the warnings, wanted to see him given a chance but he just doesn't have it. I actually agree with many policies and the man has a history of being right. Sadly being right doesn't mean you can take people on a journey towards that. Politics, at least for me these days, is all about the ability to make a messy compromise that takes things forward.
@freemo
personal views
Currently I fall in same category too... I do not have a political home really. I do not want Brexit to happen as I see nothing positive coming out of it. All it will do is make our country a tax haven in long run and we all know what that means for average citizen.
The Corbyn's version of Brexit is the unicorn and Tories version of Brexit is Tax Haven.
There is no voice for the 48% which more likely has become far greater after seeing the mess we already have at hand but is anyone even agreeing for the final say? Instead Labour is busy talking anti-semitism and May is dancing to Afrcan tunes... 🤦
personal views
Hmm... This actually just accentuated my point about different people having different interpretation of what being liberal means.
The definition of liberal as per google which picks it from oxford dictionary is:
willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.
As per meriam-webster is:
'Liberal' shares a root with 'liberty' and can mean anything from "generous" to "loose" to "broad-minded." Politically, it means "“a person who believes that government should be active in supporting social and political change."
I don't dispute your definition for that may hold true from your vantage point but I hope this helps you see what I meant when said that not everyone has same understanding of what it means to be liberal.