#fatcs

@freemo Of course the market it to blame; it's what made the corporations. It's where they were created, got their money, and were ingrained them with motivation to corrupt the state.

@benk That makes no sense since a free market doesn't exist the corporations couldnt have been made there and we cant blame it. We can only blame the lobbyists who ensured the market wasnt free and whom, in turn, gave their corporations their unfair advantage.

@freemo It doesn't work that way; first there is the market, then a business is born from the market and grows powerful enough to corrupt the state. You're right monopolies make the market less free, but that's just the fate of all markets, to be monopolized. A free market economy is not a sustainable one because it's always temporary.

@benk yes first there was a market, a market that wasn't free, then there were companies born from that market that leveraged the lack of freedom int he market to gain power, then those companies used that power to secure their place and monopolies in the market and ensure they couldn't loose it, making the market less free over time.

@freemo So basically what you're saying is that a free market by definition cannot exist, since the natural state where it all beings is where there isn't one and won't be one in the future either.

@benk Nope not saying that at all, please dont mince my words.

I am saying a free market has not existed, not that it can not exist.

@freemo I would say based on your model it can't, since the corporations already corrupted the state to ensure that the market that never was free remains unfree.

@benk The fact that corperations have corrupted the free market to make it less free in no way implies it cant. It just means the government needs to be of such a nature (either by design or through the choice of the people in who they elect) whereby it does not make laws that prevent a free market and do not cave to monopolies.

Simply voting for good people would in and of itself fix the problem, but people dont tend to do that.