How come stopping mining of cryptos made the prices crash? Supply and demand theory should predict that the price would rise because of consistently rising demand and consistently decreasing supply (more people buy than sell)

Look at streetwear. If a company stops making a shoe, the resell value typically rises. Why is this different?

@realcaseyrollins At least for bitcoin, it's the other way around - the bans reduce demand rather than supply. It's counterintuitive, because we think of mining as producing bitcoin, but mining is effectively "buying" bitcoin with computing resources, and so it's really a form of demand.

The rate of production of bitcoin is fixed (halving events every 210k blocks), so supply is constant - but a miner's expected value for a given contribution of computing resources isn't. With less competition as regulations ban mining in other jurisdictions, a given miner has a greater likelihood of earning the reward and thus a higher expected value for his exchange. That is to say, less demand among miners for newly minted coins depresses the price in computing resources of the average mined bitcoin.

@khird

I wanted to add some details here...

ultimately what the miners are doing are validating transactions. Since China banned the miners but can not ban the actual buying, selling, or transfering of coins the number of transfers per minute remain the same (relatively, this assumes interest int he coin has drastically changed).

So if you cut the number of miners in half, then while you all those miners are now earning twice the reward, they also have to handle twice the number of transactions. Since the capacity of the network went down and this isnt possible the network responds by halving the difficulty to produce the coins.

So yea miners are now getting twice the reward for the same effort in such a scenario. But does that have a significant effect on demand in general? I'd say not, as the qty minted is a very very small percentage of overall supply.

Most of the price change we see in bitcoin isnt really related to the miners or network integrity at all.. its people being scared that china, one of the largest world markets, wont be adopting the tech.

@realcaseyrollins

@khird

To put it another way, miners do not equate to supply, They equate to the rate of change in the supply, which as kyle said is fixed, but also VERY slow. Removing the miners had no noticeable impact on the overall supply now or into the near future.

@realcaseyrollins

@freemo @khird @realcaseyrollins

Just buy #SHIB, this is the way

@JackMeinoff

I'm all for altcoins, but #shib is a horrific choice. Ethereum for the near-term, ADA for the long term are your top choice

@khird @realcaseyrollins

@freemo @khird @realcaseyrollins tell that to my returns (banked, into ETH...) and the current metrics. For weeks it has beaten the market when the underlying value is simply ETH.

@JackMeinoff if your day trading, sure, by all means add #SHIB to your day trading routine. When someone famous mentions it, buy it, then sell it in a few days, rinse repeat.

But long term it hasnt really outcompeted anything. It reached its inital peak after launch which took about 2 days to hit, and then has trended down ward consistently ever since without rebounding. After 2 weeks it was down to 1/3rd its peak price and since then has continued to fall and now even lower than that. What small recoveries it had it crashes almost immediately after.

Having a good week where it raises a few minor percentage points isnt anything to write home about given its overall trend.

The important thing you need to ask yourself is, what does it have going for it? It literally offers nothing and brings nothing to the table that would suggest it will have future value.

@freemo Sorry there, but your analysis of SHIB is way off. It reached it's peak long after 2 days, spurred by the community spreading the word at the time of ATH's in the overall market. Now what you didn't do is actually compare or overlay those charts. Compare price, total valuation, number of holders and other metrics of health and it's beaten even the flagship crypto.

Mind you, this isn't FOMO due to Musk hype. It's due to normal folks. And we're not even yet to see what the devs have next

@JackMeinoff

I attached the analysis for you...

Here we see the same pattern we see of all coins that are on their way to the graveyard...

First it is listed on the public exchanges, which is when trading publicly begins (red arrow). After 4 days it hits its initial peak, then 12 days later crashes, then rebounds (typical of every new coin). At that point it continually trends downward, never recovering, and aside from the usual stochastic noise is headed right on down to 0.

Not once was it ever able to hit its post-crash value again (horizontal line). Its literally the worst trend line for buy and hold you could have. Only way you can make long term money off of it is to day trade it and play off its volatility as it crashes. consistently crashes.

@freemo but that trend line is formed by so many other factors like Musk tweets and other nonsense that made other coins take a larger dip... it wasn't listed on those exchanges then either. That came after. Each exchange listing in 2021 has utterly crushed a coin - lives were ruined by the hype behind Internet Computer for example.

There is a lot more to this, and it's easy to ignore if you're a BTC maxi or what have you...

@JackMeinoff No BTC is a bad coin too, its only advantage is that it is the oldest, so it will hang on longer.

You are literally investing in a coin that has absolutely nothing to bring to the table, has never shown any sliver of success, and since its public opening went nowhere but down...

What possible argument could you even make in support of the coin? Ethereum itself has an argument to be made, as do many other coins like ADA, or even ripple... Shib literally has nothing one could argue for in its favor.

@freemo Agreed on BTC, by definition it's a shitcoin and SHIB has better fundamentals...

Now, your claim that it's gone no where but down isn't true and you see it in the charts and if you actually looked at any period other than "all time", especially today, or value growth with market cap / holders grow... you'll see where and why the value is growing.

The value of SHIB thus far has ONLY been through word of mouth, the community coming together and the collective pump....

@freemo ...so now that it's taken off, hitting the top coin listing and such there is some dev work coming that would *maybe* add some excitement to the economics of it...

But in reality it's value is the same as BTC, fiat, etc. Everyone came together and agreed on this as a value store and along with it pumped in value.

When that dies, the coin dies.

@JackMeinoff It didnt take off... the value spiked after 2 days because it went public on exchanges (as every coin does)... it then crashed and its value made a b-line right back to 0.. its fundementals and performance is shit and frankly is one of the poorer performing novel coins ive ever seen.

No it never hit "the top coin listing" It hasnt even made it in the top 10 let alone the top, or the top 25, or the top 50!!! It is in about the 76th place in terms of how strongly held it is.

No the value of BTC isnt some arbitrary thing people just decided had value. It produced novel functionality (such as the ability to transfer money across the world in minutes without a third party or regulation), THAT and other features of BTC is where its value derrives from, not some made up arbitrary agreement. Shib does not offer any new functional value however, unlike other coins like ETH or Ripple or Ada which are all bringing new features to the table.

@freemo no offense, but you're being really stupid. Good look at the trending coins and pages like Coinmarketcap. It's on the front page now and you're saying it's not in the top 10, etc... oddly wrong AND gatekeeping.

76th place, by your words, with no utility. DOGE is #3 or #4 and it's absolutely WORSE.

What are the other BTC features? Because there aren't any. If it was fundamentals ETH would have flipped it long ago. It's all in people's heads, it's all hype.

@JackMeinoff I have made out huge off of crypto and been investing since before ETH even existed. I cant tell you how many coins ive heard people say are great, and showed all the same patterns as Shib... everyone who invested in them are broke.

I just checked coin market cap... it isnt in the top 10 ranking, or the top 20, or even the top 25. You have to scroll a ways down to find it. Worse yet this is a listing based on market cap, which tells you very little, particularly considering after shib's crash trading volume went to shit.

DOGE is exactly as bad as Shib, and I agree it has no utility either. So the fact that Shib doesnt even approach a shit coin like DOGE should tell you something.

@freemo dude, i know you think you're amazing, we all see it on display here but you're really far off and your analysis is total shit (not even based on real events). For a seasoned crypto investor I'm shocked that you don't understand that chart in relation to the bloodbath that the market took... you really have to close your eyes huh?

Again, you have to lie and ignore other factors and make things up to prove your point.

Frankly, I don't care, I've banked $ and will continue to do so.

@JackMeinoff

> dude, i know you think you're amazing, we all see it on display here but you're really far off

Once you start with the personal attacks you loose all credibility. dude your full on triggered cause someone thinks a cryptocoin sucks. You really think that paints you as an objective person in evaluating its worth? I think its clear at this point with the personal attacks and refusal to recognize a coin that has absolutely nothing to offer other than "hey someone talked about it!" as indications that you arent really offering valuable insight.

> For a seasoned crypto investor I'm shocked that you don't understand that chart in relation to the bloodbath that the market took... you really have to close your eyes huh?

Already addressed this by doing the same analysis normalized against ETH... same march towards 0. It crashed hard even normalized to ETH (meaning it takes the crypto market into account), and still marched towards 0 before slightly getting back to its post-crash value **at best**.

> Again, you have to lie and ignore other factors and make things up to prove your point.

We call that projection... when you look at the coins that hold top 10 ranks and have kept it, each and every one offers a unique technology to the game that didnt exist before... everything below top 10 are mostly coins that, like shib, bring nothing of value to the table to distinguish it in any way.

@freemo Yes, personal attacks, I'm triggered, etc... all to continue to ignore the truth & make misstatements about what drives the value of BTC to prove your point about SHIB. Frankly, you're not really understanding suddenly economics, currency, markets and anything basic about how this works to just fall on what you think is the right side of an argument (the easy one to make).

You ignored the market cap in terms of it's value... but do go on about how I'm arguing in bad faith.

@JackMeinoff

My track record and success making money on crypto more than proves I know what im talking about. I have demonstrated my expertise on the matter more than enough times over

At no point did I ignore the market cap. I have reviews the market cap, I have reviewed the volume, I have reviewed the technology and could tell you how it works at a byte for byte level... Just because someone thinks your piss poor wrong doesnt mean I ignored anything. Your ego is just too big for you to accept someone can think your wrong and actually considered those things.

For a recap lets go over the top 10 volume cryptos and exactly what they bring to the table (and remember shib brings NOTHING to the table)

#1 Tether - first stable coin to track USD

#2 BTC - First coin to bring crypto

#3 ETH - first coin to bring smart contracts

#4 Binance - first dual chain interoperable coin

#5 XRP - first coin to introduce non-traceability to transactions.

#6 ADA - First coin to operate on scientific peer-review governance

#7 ETC - First coin with guaranteed immutable chain and inability for miners to change it.

#8 LTC - First coin optimized for transfer speed above all else

#9 DOT - First well implemented DeFi coin/suite

#10 Chainlink - First oracle network w/universally connected contracts

Notice that any coin that makes it to the top and has a history of staying there, all of them are offering some piece of unique and valuable technology that didnt exist... what about SHib... what does it offer other than the luls?

@freemo My ego... you're a hoot. Love the list, Tether is the thing that will bring crypto down because it's backed by nonsense but please tell me more about your knowledge.

Why couldn't you do the simple math regarding value and market cap? I'm not sure why you can't see the simple math.

Frankly, I don't care about your "expertise". You are the same guy screaming that the GME CEO should speak on TV about the price. Just mad is all.

By all means, XRP, ADA... go for it lol.

@JackMeinoff As I've stated quite a few times, I did the math on value and market cap.. but hey keep imagining what you want. Just because I dont agree with you clearly I "didnt do it"

To be clear I am not suggesting that everything in the top 10 is a good bet.. in the end if we are talking fiat we will only likely have one or two truely successful crypto. But it wont be Shib thats for damn sure.

and no i dont care about the GME CEO personally...

@freemo Okay, what did you come up with, have you now seen the epiphany?

@JackMeinoff What epiphany.. I already talked about the market cap several times.. It followed the exact same abysmal trend as its per-coin price. Had the initial spike, huge crash, slight rebound, then a stead march to 0.

Just like the price itself:

market cap 2 days after going public on exchanges: 14 B

Market cap 2 weeks later after its almost immediate and monumental crash: 2B.. yes 2B it dropped its market cap by 12B in only 2 weeks after going public.

A few days later after rebound market cap reached 4.5B.. that is the highest its market cap will ever be again and has since steadily marched the grace.

Today after its long slow march towards 0 where is it? At about 3B, thats a 33% steady and consistent drop in market cap.

So my epiphany... everything i said was on the mark... now your epiphany? But hey, keep telling people how awesome the market cap is.

@freemo wow so a lot of words to say you don't understand how the market cap and the value are tied together... cool.

but also, ignoring the exodus of capital from all crypto markets during that time frame to make the same tired and incorrect historical argument about the price.

this gets old really fast on top of your typical condescending nature. I enjoyed it this time with the "you will lose money" nonsense while repeating I've already made it.

@JackMeinoff

You "The market cap,did you look at the market cap!!! the market cappppppp!!!!"

me: "yea, it steadily went to 0"

you" Blarrgggahhhh you dont understand market caps or values!!!"

me: "ummm the value steadily marched to 0 too."

You do understand having both the value and market cap both trending consistently towards 0 is a bad thing... knowing how they "play together" doesnt magically make **both** of them consistently and continuously crashing somehow a good thing.. no buddy, clearly you don't understand, thats still bad.

@freemo lol it went to 0, more lies, you're triggered and still don't understand how these coins have value... but you do you!

@JackMeinoff
"Steadily went to 0" as in... it has steadily declined. Not as in it was actually AT 0... I've repeated myself more than enough times for you to know what I meant.. dont act stupid.

@freemo dude, you're a liar, make peace with it

@JackMeinoff Sorry can't hear you from my yacht I bought with all the crypto.