@timorl A person deserving to die (which was not a joke, he did deserve to die) is NOT the same as being gleeful he died. If you try to physically assault someone and possibly kill them you deserve to die. I wont be gleeful about it, but you still deserve to die.

That said I often do engage in dark humor and make all sorts of horrible jokes about death and even good people. If there is one thing you should know about me its thatI expected people to take a joke and the only people I'd be sensative about a deatha round would be the family of a person who died, or people I'd expect to generally grieve. A serial rapist who anal raped 5 children and was about to assault a 6th is not one I expect anyone would grieve and while I wouldnt go so far as to say im gleeful, I certainly have no problem joking about the death of such a monster either.

As for antifa, I've been to a lot of protests. I have only ever saw them start violence and have yet to personally witness them try to stop it. In america at least, cant speak for europe.

@freemo That's clearly a massive difference in our values -- I don't believe any person deserves to die. There might be dire circumstances when killing a person is morally permissible, or even the correct ethical choice, but it's always a tragedy and a failure.

My point was they don't (usually? mostly hedging here because I would be really impressed if they actually managed not to do that even on accident over all those protests) kill people, it's not a coincidence that they say "punch a nazi" rather than "shoot a nazi".

@timorl Ok let me rephrase, because I agree "deserve" to die isnt quite the correct word for what I feel.. like i dont want him to die for what he did, dieing is just the natural and rightful consequence of what he did. In others his death is his fault

But yes antifa rarely shoot or kill people, they start violence, they burn down homes with families in it, they burn down cars and businesses, but they dont shoot people.. Kyle on the other hand, he provided first aid to several people, cleaned up graffitti and only **only** shot when he had no other choice and his life was in danger. Otherwise he commited no violence other than what he needed to to save his life/prevent an assault.

Of the two ill take a person who kills to protect his life from an assault/killer over someone who initiates violence on random people and property.

@freemo That is close enough to "deserve" that the difference in values remains. I guess I should just mute some phrases related to this at least for a while...

My point was he went to protests with the same goals as antifa do (at least that's what I get from your description of what he was doing), and they manage not to kill people when they do that. I see this as at least negligence on his part, which eventually resulted in people dying. And I'm _really_ bothered by suggestions that more people should do the same. :/

@timorl I cant speak for in europe but I never met someone in antifa who's goal was to defend against assaults. I have heard them however plan to go with the intent to assault others whom they disagree with. I'm not sure how relevant it is anyway.

People should shoot people who try to take the life of others (or assault someone which may result in death anyway). Yes I firmly believe that. If you dont want to get shot, then dont try to kill or maim other people. Its a reasonable social contract.

@timorl As for muting certain words, if it really bothers you that might be a good idea. That said, I doubt it will be a central topic for much longer. I am sure we will have a new riot soon enough and will be discussing a whole new shit show, and before that kyle will be forgotten in a day or two.