Another interesting fact about #Israel ... There is no historical evidence that a kingdom of Israel in anctient times **ever** actually existed. In fact most non-religious scholars feel that it either didnt exist or at the very least the writings about it were first written long long after it may have existed. This is evident because of countless anachronisms that we know couldnt be historically accurate (as they didnt exist yet for the time period)... so scholars have been able to reasonably conclude the account in the bible was in all likelihood made up at a later time.
In short, #Israel 's entire claim of it being an "ancient ancestral land" is based entirely on the bible and not accepted as historical fact by historians...
Yet again people kill for their gods, gods who tell them the first rule is not to kill.
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@freemo@qoto.org
@freemo I'm a BDS activist, so don't take this as an attempt to back up zionist narratives, but Jews have recorded history in Palestine wrt to the Jewish-Roman Wars, which saw their expulsion, and Samaritan Jews have had a continued presence in Nablus since ~100BC, and still do today (they are few, maybe 300, but I've been to their village -- they are Palestinians. and yes they are Jews, just not Rabbinical jews; the Pentateuch is Torah, with some key differences).
whether we Ashkenazis have roots in Palestine, I believe just vague traces at the genetic level due to marriages with Sephardic and maybe some Samaritans as well, but from what I understand we're the product of assyrian jews migrating to central asia and marrying with caucasian and turkic tribes, some of which converted to Judaism, and continued migrating westward, eventually settling among germanic tribes in the area that spans from today's Belarus to Estonia.
I am in no way claiming jews didnt live in the area in anctient times. I think that is well established for sure.
I would say its very reasonable to say palestine was the original home to jews and arabs, and any fair right of return should be a home to both..
I do not beleive in Palestine for the arabs or jews for israel... I beleive in one nation for both since both groups have roots in the land and people should be welcomed to the land they have ancestry from.
Sounds like we mostly agree.
@freemo yep, I'd say so, but I'm not sure I believe most ashkenazim have any "right" to be there, we are not indigenous to the land in any way shape or form. and I'm not sure I still buy into Edward Said's vision of a binational solution, for the simple reason that I think its a violation of judaism for eretz Yisroel to be associated with any kind of government or state. and I'm not religious, I'm just very influenced by the Chasidic tradition, and I think that the Talmud contains many sage lessons, that have material purposes that facilitate a tikkun olam (repairing the world) as a practice that happens with other non-jews, and ensures we treat them with dignity and respect; if we actually follow Talmud at least, for which a jewish nation is strictly forbidden.
For me there is a huge issue with giving land to someone based on race, particularly a group that is 2000+ years removed.. I mean genetically the jews of today are probably very far removed, in part due to them being dispersed.
Its problematic at best.
