@knittingknots2 Great indicator and proof that most people are irresponsible with their spending and tend to rent places outside of their means.

This isnt a graphic showing rent is too high, its a graphic showing people are irresponsibly spending their money by signing onto rent deals they cant afford.

@freemo @knittingknots2 My brother in Christ, it’s like this because the U.S. does not have enough homes for the number of people who live in it. The problem is particularly acute in the areas where most of the jobs are. A cursory examination indicates that it’s a supply and demand problem, not people being irresponsible with their money.

cnn.com/2023/03/08/homes/housi

@MisuseCase

No, In fact there are more houses currently open for rent then there are homeless people in the USA. So we know for a fact the issue isnt that there arent enough homes.

@knittingknots2

@freemo @knittingknots2 No there are not “more houses for rent than there are homeless people in the USA.”

There are a lot of housing units that are long abandoned and falling apart and/or in places like Bumfuck Alabama that nobody wants to live in they are not “for rent.”

@MisuseCase

Right we arent talking about the places that arent for rent that are abandoned. I'm talking about actual homes up to code, more than enough for rent to cover all homeless people several times over. It isnt a quantity issue.

@knittingknots2

@freemo @knittingknots2 Yeah I know you are talking about those. There aren’t enough of those. Like, they don’t exist. Especially not where the jobs are.

You have a weird idea that’s a combination of this stupid leftist myth and a stupid right-wing personal responsibility myth.

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@MisuseCase

You have no clue what my idea of the problem actually is, you didnt ask. But it isnt qty, yes they exist.

Now saying "they arent where the jobs are" that at least gets closer to an aspect of the problem. But that also is in line with what I said, it isnt a quantity issue.

@knittingknots2

@freemo @knittingknots2 Yes it is. I live in an area where we have a rent crisis and this is the biggest factor contributing to it.

And you think, what, housing is a fungible commodity where it doesn’t matter where the housing is? Of course it matters where it is. Can’t pay the rent if you don’t have money, which almost always means a job.

@freemo @knittingknots2 You don’t need to keep tagging the OP at the end by the way when you reply to me or I reply to you they are automatically tagged.

@MisuseCase

No they arent. The convention ont he fedi is to keep people at the bottom and the first person tagged at the top indicates who you reply to.

Some servers (perhaps yours) will auto tag people, others dont do that, it depends on the software your on.

Even when it is automatically done the convention is often to leave it anyway as it gives an explicit indication as to who is directly being responded to, something you can do if you leave off the OP as the OP wont know when you are addressing them by moving their name back tot he top. So its a convention usually maintained regardless (though you dont have to).

@knittingknots2

@MisuseCase

Which to my point, then you shouldnt be looking locally. You should be looking in areas where there is no local crisis. Showing it isnt a qty issue, you have options just not options that match what you want (something in a specific area).

@knittingknots2

@freemo @knittingknots2 Some people can work remotely but most people can’t. You mean someone should just move wherever where they might not be able to have a job to pay their rent with? That’s bananapants. Nobody does that. I’m pretty sure even you wouldn’t do that when making decisions about your life.

@freemo @knittingknots2 It’s also still a quantity issue as the CNN article said (and they’re not the only ones) there is an overall shortage of housing units NATIONWIDE. We do not have enough housing for all the households or people.

@MisuseCase

There are 357 million bedrooms in the USA and 323 million people... There is literally enough room for every single person to have their own bedroom. Since in reality we have 2 people to a bedroom in most cases we are talking about x2 more housing space than people...

Yea there are more than enough houses.

@knittingknots2

@freemo @knittingknots2 There are almost 335 million people in the United States, your count is off.

And now you are talking about bedrooms, not housing units. We weren’t talking about *bedrooms.*

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr

@MisuseCase

What? Well there is yourproblem... Why would you compare housing units, which are design to house whole families, to number of people? One person isnt living in a housing unit for 4 people.

You count **living space** one person should be rending one small room not a housing unit. If you are a family with multiple members then you might rent a whole home, at most.

@knittingknots2

@MisuseCase

Yup, the definition of "housing unit" is exactly as I described it. A unit for living such as a home meant to house an entire family **or** person. So entire homes count as 1 housing unit, even if they house 10 people (a family)... as I pointed out.

@knittingknots2

@freemo @knittingknots2 No. A housing unit may also be part of a building housing multiple people.

I don’t think you’re a productive person to talk to. You don’t read. You don’t think.

@MisuseCase

Of course it can. When did I say we were talking about independent physical structures? A home can be a condo for example.

And no i read, its you who arent reading what **I** said, and I agree, you arent a productive person to talk to.

@knittingknots2

@MisuseCase

Most likely there is at least one home for rent within the hour or so commute radius for your job. If your claiming there isnt I'd be really curious what area your even talking about.

That said no.. what I am saying is if the areas you have to pick from to move to dont have job options for you there, that is a problem with the job market, it doesnt mean there arent enough houses.

@knittingknots2

@freemo @knittingknots2 There are homes for rent within an hour of my job and they’re all very expensive.

Also “it’s a problem with the job market not that there aren’t enough houses” so thank you for confirming that moving to a place where you cannot get a job to pay the rent is a terrible idea, why did you suggest it

@MisuseCase

> There are homes for rent within an hour of my job and they’re all very expensive.

Then if there isnt a single affordable option then the problem is your pay is too low (or the homes are too expensive), not the qty of homes. Still I'd be very skeptical there isnt a cheap room to rent anywhere in that area.

@knittingknots2

@freemo @MisuseCase @knittingknots2 If this were true, people wouldn't be trying to rent in apartments in cities, and simply go for the places "1 hour or so commute of their jobs".

Those areas are *also* cities, packed just as tightly, with people holding unused homes to an aggressive rental pricing, let alone buying pricing.

@AT1ST

> If this were true, people wouldn't be trying to rent in apartments in cities, and simply go for the places "1 hour or so commute of their jobs".

How ya figure? Most people dont pick the cheapest option, most people are very irresponsible with their spending and will get a place they cant afford because they want to be close to the bar or have a nice place. Thats part of the problem.

@MisuseCase @knittingknots2

@freemo @AT1ST @knittingknots2 This isn’t “most people.” I don’t know what your financial or housing situation is but I don’t think you’ve talked to real people about theirs.

Lots of people with limited means have gotten priced out of cities and pushed into the suburbs and have long commutes.

@MisuseCase

As a matter of charity I take people into my home who are homeless and give them a place to live. This is usually a mutli-year process as I help them get on their feet and out of poverty. I have done this with many people.

Virtually every person I ever helped who was homeless had horrible money management issues and overspent on things they couldnt afford, including rent (before they became homeless)... Yes it absolutely is most people who are in this situation. Not surprisingly almost all of them were in denial about their habits and wasnt until they were back on their feet and doing well they realized their bad habits and corrected them.

@AT1ST @knittingknots2

@freemo @AT1ST @knittingknots2 Yeah, most people who end up homeless can’t afford rent…because rent is extremely expensive and being rent-burdened is a common problem. That’s why a lot of people end up homeless! Because the cost of living, including housing, is expensive.

@MisuseCase

Right, but not because the rent was simply too high, but because they choose places that were well beyond their means and were irresponsible and had far more space than they needed (often renting apartments intead of rooms).

For every single person I helped and is now out of poverty and doing well they had to adjust how they spent money and be more responsible. Once they did they had no trouble affording their rent, once they picked a place they could afford.

@AT1ST @knittingknots2

@freemo @MisuseCase @knittingknots2 The cheapest rent in my city that I've heard cited is my studio apartment (0 bedroom), and it...is about 2 Slim PS5s worth a month.

My parents own a place and rent their basement, an hour and a half away on public transit, for around the cost of 1 Slim PS5 a month.

Rent is so high, I can compare it *literal luxury items.*

@AT1ST

Im not sure what those items cost. Are you willing to give the name of the area your in?

@MisuseCase @knittingknots2

@freemo @MisuseCase @knittingknots2 The PS5 Slim Digital costs $579.99.

And to be clear, where I live, we recently invoked a rent freeze, so without it, in the last couple of years, it could've been more.

Like, gone up to 3 PS5 Slim Digital consoles' worth.

@AT1ST

That adds up for a studio in some expensive cities. But again if 1K is too expensive for you then you probably should be renting a room, not a studio. The most expensive area in the USA to rent (manhatten) has rooms that are quite a bit cheaper than that. Go an hour outside of manhatten even cheaper still.

@MisuseCase @knittingknots2

@freemo @MisuseCase @knittingknots2 Are those the places that are often described as shoeboxes, sometimes not having a dedicated bathroom or kitchen?

Because somehow I got those in mine, and space is somehow a thing I'm not short on for my price.

(Also, my prices are in CDN, for comparison.)

I'd add one contention for Manhattan - are we talking 1 hour outside but within public transit access? That's what the places I'm mentioning have.

@freemo @MisuseCase @knittingknots2 (Oh, to clarify, my studio was double the listed price of the Slim PS5 Digital listed above. And it would've been higher had we not got a rent freeze 3 years ago - technically 5, but only enforced 3 years ago.).

@AT1ST

Right, which is nearly twice the price of renting a room in the most expensive area in the USA (Manhattan)... Which would suggest unless your in Manhattan itself there are cheaper options, even if there wasnt a rent freeze. If I knew the specific area I'd probably find one as an example.

@MisuseCase @knittingknots2

@freemo @MisuseCase @knittingknots2 I mean, I'm not looking to move myself - I do know that others have significantly more costs incurred.

Because the issue isn't as big an issue for me - but my sister, her husband, and their toddler now live in a 2 bedroom a bit closer to the downtown of the city...and they pay ~5-6 PS5 Slim Digitals a month..
"Reasonable for the area" or not, it...gets on my nerves when people say that the homeless or others just need to have better spending habits.

@freemo @MisuseCase @knittingknots2 (The reason it gets on my nerves is that there's pretty much *no* reason to buy more than one of those items for the entire lifespan of the console [7-10 years] for personal use, and it would constitue the most reckless spending spree that comes to mind.

It's not how people spend their money, even enthusiasts within the field. But it is how we spend our rent, because...?)

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@AT1ST

> gets on my nerves when people say that the homeless or others just need to have better spending habits.

Like I said, its simply the truth (though the word "just" is wrong there, its only one aspect of the issue).

Like I said I have helped many people over the years get out of poverty and 100% of them all had bad spending habits as part of the problem. Often there are other issues as well, but that is always a huge aspect. You and people you know buying hugely expensive homes because they can afford it is fine. Doesnt change the fact there are very affordable options for those who cant too.

@MisuseCase @knittingknots2

@AT1ST

> Are those the places that are often described as shoeboxes, sometimes not having a dedicated bathroom or kitchen?

They are rooms to rent in a home you'd share with other roomates. So you'd have a shared bedroom and kitchen, and one room in the home to yourself.

Yes you can pay more and obviously get much more space to yourself. But we are talking about affordability, that is a choice your making, and if you can afford it, enjoy. The point is most people get more space than they can afford, and there are much cheaper and very livable options until you improve your career.

@MisuseCase @knittingknots2

@AT1ST @freemo @knittingknots2 A lot of people move to places that are an hour away from their jobs or further from their jobs because they can’t afford anything closer.

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