We worry about providing Universal Basic Income because people might stop working, but here's a thought: maybe, just maybe, with a little financial security, people might actually pursue work they truly choose rather than work to just not die. Imagine that world for a moment.
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As someone who is strongly against UBI, and strongly supportive of welfare I can earnestly say people simply not working is not at all the reason I (or most people against UBI in my opinion) are against it.
The reason i am against it is because it causes people more harm than good. People who are in a position where they need assistance need to be given the tools to get out of their situation, and the help to get there needs to be conditional on this (and we should be spending the money that goes with that). Financial assistance should be conditional with mandatory job training or mental health therapy needed to help someone succeed, not just money.
In fact when there are underlying bad habits, as can often be the case, it is possible money can even make a persons condition worse and cause them to sleep farther into poverty.
@freemo @scottsantens I think you’re saying the same thing, that if people are given money without any strings attached then they will not start working but use that money for nefarious purposes. There’s been quite a lot of research showing that unconditional cash donations are very effective at easing extreme poverty, which counters your point that it makes things worse: https://poverty-action.org/impact/cash-transfers-changing-debate-giving-cash-people-living-poverty
I think you’re saying the same thing, that if people are given money without any strings attached then they will not start working but use that money for nefarious purposes.
No I wouldnt go that far at all. I think most people who are poor have very poor financial hygene. It is not nefarious, or even intentional. They probably spend the money on things they feel really are the important and right things to spend money on, when in fact it isnt
It also depends ont he amount, at minimal levels and among the poor it may be spent on food, which is a good purchase, but doesnt help get the person out of poverty, so in those cases its less about spending hygiene and more about needing more resources (like education/training) and not about the money.
There’s been quite a lot of research showing that unconditional cash donations are very effective at easing extreme poverty
Yes there has, and thats my point, simply easing poverty is treating the symptoms not the problem, and requires and infinite infusion of money to sustain never resolving the problem. We dont want to “ease poverty” we want to break people free of poverty all together, to not need the financial help at all in the end. Easing poverty with an endless firehose of cash doesnt accomplish that.
I grew up in extreme poverty that continued into adulthood. I lived in the ghetto, on welfare in section 8 housing in a home with my grandparents, cousins, uncle, and mother all in the same small home.
Thank you for the QED though regarding your own bias.
@freemo @jkxyz @scottsantens You might be the exception that proves the rule. But I do wonder how representative the samples you've taken are of financial hygiene for people in different income brackets.
It would be a tricky thing to show in an experimental objective fashion. But i alw
So pointed out in thread ive taken in some dozen poor homeless people over my life and got them back on their feet. Myself now being financially successful in life and having learned to get out of poverty i feel it is important to help others do the same.
Having been in poverty and helped .any others get out id say i have a far better sampling than most people at least.
@freemo @BernieDoesIt @jkxyz @scottsantens Poverty will lead to improved money management skills. Before I started college I bought around $400 dollars in hand tools and a laptop. It took a lot of saving up to buy but good hand tools are an investment that pay themselves off.
I still have those tools and that laptop. A Craftsman 354 piece Mechanics Tool Set and some Toshiba Satellite with an AMD C-50 "Ontario" APU.
Poverty is something that I've never been able to escape. It gets rough but I would like to think it will all pay off one day. I can only say stay sharp, say nawt. One needs every bit of leverage they can get.
@freemo @jkxyz @scottsantens You can always tell when someone's never been poor because they say things like "most people who are poor have very poor financial hygene."