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2020 the age of designer disorders...
On the one hand I can say I **do** like the fact that mental disorders have more acceptance and less stigma, but my god did the pendulum swing too far. Now its a point of pride to the point that people just make up (or even get frivolously diagnosed) just to be cool or accepted. Autism and ADHD seem to be the designer disorders of the day and I am completely convinced the overwhelming majority of people who claim to have autism, or were even diagnosed, at least the high-functioning ones, dont.
@freemo for me it was just the answer to a question "wth is wrong with me". now I know (but not diagnosed, just very strong suspicion) and realized that some my habits are self-found way of coping, knowing the fact just stimulates me a bit to learn better way to be useful member or society, this is basically it. Over-glorifying mental issues lately is... disturbing, but also letting other people know that some problems are not very visible, be kind is good. If being asked, all I say to people "I might have autism, that's why I seem strange", shrug, and change topic
but people, who make whole identity out of some mental disorder or some very narrow interest - this is getting old
So to be clear I never judge an individual who claims to have autism to their face, or even in how I treat them. Whether I think you have it or not (or anyone) shouldn't matter, if you claim you have it and need to be treated in a special way to accommodate that i am happy to do so with no judgement (in the sense that it would effect how i treat or interact iwth you).
The long and short of that is basically, I would find it quite rude if I or anyone told someone who said they had autism that they didnt as an individual. However making those judgements and extrapolating to the general case (and accounting for the fact tha tI may even have gotten a few cases wrong) I have no issue with.
So that said since you did bring it up first I will address some of your points. But bear in mind I am speaking from the perspective of "most people who are high-functioning and claim they are autistic" and not necessarily you...
> for me it was just the answer to a question "wth is wrong with me".
For most people the desire to have an answer, especially one where there is some cause that doessnt blame themselves or others, is a strong desire.
In truth its not an answer at all, but the desire to fool ourselves that it is wins.
> now I know (but not diagnosed, just very strong suspicion) and realized that some my habits are self-found way of coping, knowing the fact just stimulates me a bit to learn better way to be useful member or society, this is basically it.
I mean, that can be done without needing to identify as autistic. You notice you have interactions that dont go the way you want, sure adapt so they go the way you want. To me there isnt much benefit to applying a incorrect label to someone to get there.
> Over-glorifying mental issues lately is... disturbing, but also letting other people know that some problems are not very visible, be kind is good.
There are two issues being addressed here. One we agree one, one seems we may not. We both agree the gloryfying of the disease is just absurd. But I remain of the opinion that 95% of high functioning people who claim to be autistic are not, and this is likely where we disagree. Nothing wrong with disagreeing though
> If being asked, all I say to people "I might have autism, that's why I seem strange", shrug, and change topic
While I doubt that the vast majority who would think they have it actually do (and statistically youd be among that group) I can say the fact that you dont glorify it, and that you exhibit doubt in your certainty all points in a much healthier take. My concern is that even with a diagnosis I'd still remain convinced 95% of people diagnosed do not have it (and this comes from a lot of discussion with experts).
> but people, who make whole identity out of some mental disorder or some very narrow interest - this is getting old
Agreed
And there are incentives for the psychiatry as a whole to "find" more mental illness and suffering. It creates a river of funds towards the industry, and the more money they get the more unhealthy individuals will be found.
there is some incentive there. But honestly I do think psychiatrists are acting in good faith in their diagnosis, they are just wrong.
The effect, in my opinion, is a societal one. Most americans have developed personality disorders, its like living in a mental hospital. But since they are the majority, the overwhelming majority, it is the healthy people who, through societal gas lighting (being on the receiving end of people with personality disorders) they are convinced **they** are the ones who are broken instead. Psychiatrists tend to go along and look for reasons.
The end result is a bunch of people int he minority being diagnosed with autistm rather than the vast majority being diagnosed (more correctly) with the personality disorder.
@freemo first of, let me thank you for giving my stupid take your very valuable time, I really appreciate it!
I think I, as always, missed main point of your post
> My concern is that even with a diagnosis I’d still remain convinced 95% of people diagnosed do not have it (and this comes from a lot of discussion with experts).
it reminds me a book? or a story? when guy was reading a medical book and found like hundred different illness and disorders in himself
people (especially youth) are very impressionable, so I like your choice to call it "designer disorder", since is 1) everywhere on social media, 2) fancy and 3) gives you social (victim) points, so a lot of so called people on the spectrum are just lucking social skills (yeah, irony, I think I have more of this than actual problem)
to add something valuable to conversation, I remember recently I was listening to a podcast (Peter Atia? Uberman? or Shane from Knowledge Project? one of these guys) when host had a guest, forgot his main specialization, but he told a story how he had a stroke, and after he found out, that we basically live in illusion, we as humans have multiple systems for reality check, but his stroke disrupted seamless work of them all as one "mind", that was unexpected perspective.. dunno.. to how fragile we are and how our brain does a lot of work to interpret reality
now I regret that I picked math instead of neuroscience, brains are much more interesting
@AncientGood > I think I, as always, missed main point of your post
I had two main points, and I wasnt all that clear, not your fault. You did get half of the picture though :)
> it reminds me a book? or a story? when guy was reading a medical book and found like hundred different illness and disorders in himself
This is a known pattern among new medical students. As they learn they start tpo worry they have most of the things they learn about.
> people (especially youth) are very impressionable, so I like your choice to call it "designer disorder", since is 1) everywhere on social media, 2) fancy and 3) gives you social (victim) points, so a lot of so called people on the spectrum are just lucking social skills (yeah, irony, I think I have more of this than actual problem)
This is a big part of the problem, yea. The other side is that I think the diagnosis is just reversed. The majority of Americans legitimately have personality disorders. But psychiatrity tends to assume the majority is what is normal. So isntead of diagnosing 90% of people with personality disorder they diagnost 10% of people (incorrectly) with autism. Its just some massive societal form of unintentional gaslighting.
> to add something valuable to conversation,
You already added value my friend.
> I remember recently I was listening to a podcast (Peter Atia? Uberman? or Shane from Knowledge Project? one of these guys) when host had a guest, forgot his main specialization, but he told a story how he had a stroke, and after he found out, that we basically live in illusion, we as humans have multiple systems for reality check, but his stroke disrupted seamless work of them all as one "mind", that was unexpected perspective.. dunno.. to how fragile we are and how our brain does a lot of work to interpret reality.
This is something i can relate to. I practice altered state meditation where I try to learn to control those parts of the brain.. it isnt easy but you can "turn off" things like the part of your brain that recognizes faces, and when you do its a very bizzarre thing and gives you a similar feeling where you realize most of your perception is an illusion.
now I regret that I picked math instead of neuroscience, brains are much more interesting
@freemo whoa, now I'm listening! :D
> This is something i can relate to. I practice altered state meditation where I try to learn to control those parts of the brain..
where I can learn more, really curious
Not really, I am mostly self learned. I was inspired by the advanced technique of buddhist monks and the way they describe various states and then applied that to modern science (I own some EEGs and stuff).
So most of the info comes from a combination of buddhis studies and science about the brain, especially sleep states
@freemo very well then, I hope one day you will find the mood and enough free time to make a blog post about your technique, altering mind state is my new passion (unfortunately, here in Canada I can't legally rely on substances)
@AncientGood Sure I can do a writeup sometime. Its mostly practice but i did realize some helpful hints along the way.
@AncientGood Oh and as a point of clarity, mind altering substances wont get you there. If anything they will cloud your brain and make such states harder to achieve.
@freemo I use Sam Harris as a beacon for this matter, a lot of his podcasts mention using shrooms and acid as a start for exploring and understanding that what we see is not actually there
unfortunately I live in Canada, all I can legally try is THC =) oh and shrooms, but I gonna have to grow them myself
anyway, gonna wait for your practice, sounds interesting to explore further
@AncientGood Would you like me to write up some quick adviice here to get started from my personal exp.?
@freemo of course, I am always open for new experiences and advises!
@freemo I'm not so sure about "overwhelming majority", these seem to be not that uncommon once you learn to recognise the symptoms. There is a problem with people assuming them, self-diagnosing and overall subconsciously Munchausening themselves for attention, yeah, but there's also a large pool of fairly high functioning adults who never got diagnosed when it was taboo and now are discovering it in a big wave as awareness spreads.
@Amikke Yrea I am fairly well aware of the symptoms, Ive worked with a lot of real autistic people in the past.
Obviously I disagree with the narrative. Dont get me wrong i do think there were a lot of undiagnosed people, a nd of the official diagnosis of high-functioning artists go i would suspect somewhere around 5% are legitimate. But yea i maintain the overwhelming majority are not. They appear to be so only because the overwhelming majority of the Americcan population have personality disorders and when your in such an environment you will check most of the check marks for autism despite not having it.
Psychiatry breaks down when the overwhelming majority of your population is not "normal" since most diagnosis assumes the majority of your interactions are with people who dont have a disorde rthemselves.
@freemo I was actually thinking more about my surroundings and the people I got to know or heard about. It may vary between countries a lot. But tbh, if a crushing majority is "not normal" in a certain way, then whatever they are becomes "normal".
@Amikke I am only speaking of the USA and the few countries where toxicity has become the norm (like much of England as well but to a much lesser degree).
That said, psychiatry should be trying to find dysfunction in the brain and correcting it. It should never be based on achieving a "normal" state (that is, a state which arbitrarily aligns with the majority).
@freemo it is more they discovered autism treatments help some almost normal people too
@bluGill That makes sense since a normal person in an environment with 90% of the population with personality disorders (the situation) would likely have to deal with many similar stressors as a person with autism in a normal environment.
He hasn't written a blog post about it, but he's mentioned it in passing, if I remember correctly.