@freemo religion seems to only serve as a dynamic collection of excuses.
@cobratbq I think religion has real value and wisdom. And just like any wise useful principles they are completely ignored by their followers and instead used selectively to justify idiocy.
@freemo I tried to find usefulness, but I just don't see it. Can you give me an example that religion contributes (positively) that cannot originate from a good person with a capacity for thought? (I.e. where religion is a significant factor.)
To clarify: I know someone who is seriously religious, but he is also smart. The sensible moments for religion can easily be explained by this person's intelligence.
Can you tell me an idea that comes from a good person who is an atheist that could not come from a religiously minded person?
Your premise is flawed. I said religions have wisdom, I never said religions have wisdom that is exclusive to religion and unable to be formed by other routes.
@freemo hmmm.. I get what/why you're countering, but I'm not sure if we agree on what I'm asking.
Religion should serve as a guiding factor (at the least) right? But if everyone takes away something different, i.e. there is no commonly acknowledged/supported wisdom, then it's even weaker than a ("V-for-Vendetta"-esque) idea. For example, the idea of "the 99% vs the 1%" performs better at this point.
Does poetry stop having value just because people can take away different things? Is it any less capable of delivering beauty?
@freemo this is a red herring. People are judged, attacked, murdered based off religion. Religion itself pretends to prescribe how to live your life and what your morals should be. Yet we rely on individuals overriding prescription, especially on morals. ("Selectively override", if you subscribe to said religion.)
A quote like "I respect you too much to respect your ridiculous beliefs." already says something about surpassing usefulness. It doesn't work if the beliefs are right but minimal.
@cobratbq people have judged, attacked, and murdered based off whatever shitty excuses they could come up with. Religion is no more special than any other ideal when it comes to murder.
@freemo sure, actually there's two sides to this: one is how religion also contributes to wars with some of the "wisdom" present within, moreso than for example poetry. Two, is that we now discuss a negative motivated by religion itself, yet we don't have the positive contributions that are present among followers.
Regardless, my intuition tells me we digressed quite far from the original topic. Also, I don't know shit about poetry.
religion doesnt contribute to wars from the "wisdom" imo... tht requires a human interpritation, and not from the religion. Just as the good comes from human interpritation... Religion, as any source of wisdom, is a tool. That tool and wise words can be twisted to any means youd like.
Its like poetry, one can say it inspires love, and romance, and compassion and all sorts of good things. But one can interprit those same words to mean bad things too.
@freemo @cobratbq
Oh, weird, lemme send you this video, this is how I've usually heard the argument. You can also include William Lane Craig, Red Pen Logic, and a bunch of other theologians.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYZ1ByzWY9U