@freemo But not equally oppressive or equally assholes.
There is an equation / structure that does the compound damage so you or I as assholes isn't much but those who are rich massacre in finance anything compared to that, or even hammer / delete / erase years worth of good people's work. It's not equal also as the 'who has more resources to be an asshole' and following more structurally enforcing things and threatening using that system does way more damage that your 'we're all equal' sounding stuff seems to be saying...

Though for sure people are born erroneous - we just need a system and more people that lean the tree toward better ways (and not pure-profit ways which is not even neutral and opposite to accepting our own imperfections and magnifying it)

@freeschool Rich people have more power, so for an equal measure of asshole you might argue they do more damage on an individual basis. But there are is also far fewer of them, so collectively this balances out.

In reality I'd say the huge masses of poor to middle class assholes do equal societal damage overall when compared to the very small number of rich assholes.

@freemo @freeschool Far between, but wealth accumulated more than the lower half of the total population. It's moving towards upper class and lower class, the middle class is diminishing. Wealth transfer has already been confirmed, the upper class gained 30% on average since the start of Covid.

@modrobert

That means there are even fewer rich assholes and even more poor assholes. So doesnt really change the crux of the argument here.

That said uneven wealth distribution is not the issue and never has been. The true measure should be the oppertunity afforded to the poor and middle class and their quality of life.

Lets not forget more than half of the wealthy people started out in life as poor or middle class.

@freeschool

@freemo @freeschool That's not what I read, unless you are born into the top 1% you aren't going there statistically, ever. There was a time when this was possible, back when the tax on the rich was around 70%, and you had effective laws to counter cartels and monopolies, that time is gone.

@modrobert

What you just said is not contrary to what I said.

The vast majority of the rich were born poor and middle class. But there are very few rich people, ergo, your change of becoming rich is still low.

Lets face it, the rich represent (mostly) the people who are the absolute best at making money. Not everyone can be the best, most people cant be the best, but being the best is open to anyone no matter how you started.

@freeschool

@freemo @freeschool They aren't the best at making money, they use their wealth to make it impossible for the rest of us to get there, the game is rigged the way I see it.

@modrobert

That assertion is in direct contradiction to the fact that the overwhelming majority of the rich started as poor or middle class.. so you point is simply false.

@freeschool

@freemo @freeschool Not sure where you get that info from, most rich people come from wealthy families.

@modrobert

I get that number and numbers like it from countless studies I've read. Plus it is quite obvious as I deal with rich people every day, the vast majority of whome are self-made.

Here is one such report for you out of a great many that all reaffirm the same data: https://www.wealthx.com/report/world-ultra-wealth-report-2019/

@freeschool

@modrobert

Now more importantly, what study or professionally executed report do **you** get your data from to suggest most wealthy people are born to it?

@freeschool

@freemo @freeschool Wealthy to me is when you can buy politicians legally through donations and use lobbying, not that you can afford two cars, house and family.

@modrobert

30 million is more than enough to buy politicians. My step dad is worth 25 million and both Trump and Biden were over his house and spent the night in an attempt to get money from him. So yea, more than enough to buy politicians.

@freeschool

@freemo @freeschool In other words, we share an opinion, democracy is failing.

@modrobert

This is true, but where we disagree is whose fault it is. I argue its everyones fault, you seem to think the blame mostly lies on the wealthy.

@freeschool

@freemo @freeschool If you can buy politicians to gain advantage for your business then there's the fault right there, it's unethical to do so, and it should be illegal. Shared blame for corrupt politicians and the rich who uses the system. In the end only a revolution can even things out, my guess it will happen soon, unless the rich invent some world war to divert attention from the class war, exciting times ahead.

@modrobert

The problem is that it isnt a problem isolated to the rich. Many politicians start out very much not rich and take advantage of the system (ultimately becoming rich if they are good or staying poor if they arent). As such they, as middle-class and below are equally to blame for taking the bribes in the first place.

Never mind the fact that the rich buying off politicians is a small fraction of the overall problem which extends well beyond bribery or the rich.

@freeschool

@freemo @freeschool As the class gap increases the rich get fewer, and more people get poor. This will eventually lead to revolution in some form (doesn't have to be violent). The big problem is to beat corruption in a system which is corrupt, it can't be done from within. Perhaps unrelated, but I'm pretty sure that if you and me met in real life we would become buddies with slightly difference views.

@modrobert

I dont agree. It isnt the wage gap that leads to revolution. It is the quality of life and quantity of the lowest paid tier of society. As long as the poor have a good overall quality of life the wage gap wont matter, particularly if the system is fair and the rich represent self-made rich people (As it currently does)

@freeschool

@freemo @freeschool When half the population barely gets by to make ends meet, and can't afford more than a USD$ 400 emergency on average, that's bad over all quality.

@modrobert

Yes it is. I am not saying there isnt a problem. I am saying you are misidentifying what that problem is

@freeschool

@freemo @freeschool I think one of the problems is that poor people sometimes feel shame, so they try to keep appearances up, but they have nothing to be ashamed of, once that shame turns into to anger you have a revolution coming. Only the people who get rich by making other people poor should feel shame in my opinion, but for some reason they don't, almost as if you have the "key to success" right there.

@modrobert

Its fairly rare that someones poor status is entierly the fault of some greedy rich person. I grew up poor, most poor people make the wrong decisions that keep them poor combined with not having good resources to help them make the right decision, it is a bit of both.

I know many rich people who offer advice and make amazing mentors for people looking to get out of poverty. Sadly the impression of "rich people evil" means very often poor people dont even take the first step of looking for a rich mentor to help them succeed. When they do they often just dont take the steps needed.

I have financially supported over a dozen people in my life with the intent of getting them on their feet and making them financially successful. Many simply didnt do what was needed of them for success and had no one to blame but themselves. A small number took my advice and guidance and most of them are veryw ell to do today.

Victim mentality is one of the core problems keeping poor people down. More programs to help them would be great but they wont do squat until they take responsibility for their own situation.

@freeschool

@freemo @modrobert

Alright. I'm going to call that -
not going to label it for now.

To put aside / not respond to things based on this filter... is something to name later.

Perhaps anyway and without dumping feelings about that, it's probably with whatever that grabs our interests (such as numbers) that we really make time for doing it / working on it consciously or not.