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Is pornography morally wrong?
@freemo It's the cancer of society
@voidabyss Cancer isnt exactly the same as being morally wrong. But feel free to elaborate why if you want to discuss it.
@freemo Smoking lead to cancer which lead to early death making smoking morally wrong.
Porn lead to sex addiction which lead to diminishing productivity and unhappy relationships making it the cancer of society.
https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/porn-addiction-possible
> Porn lead to sex addiction which lead to diminishing productivity and unhappy relationships making it the cancer of society.
I am going to take this as an axiom and assume its correct for this discussion. Its not, its completely wrong im sure, but to save time lets just assume it is right for the sake of argument.
> Smoking lead to cancer which lead to early death making smoking morally wrong.
Smoking isnt morally wrong, nor is early death. Why would something automatically be morally wrong simply because it results in a earlier death for you, thats your choice, its your life. It may be a bad decision, but that doesnt make it an immoral one.
@freemo
> Why would something automatically be morally wrong simply because it results in a earlier death for you, thats your choice, its your life. It may be a bad decision, but that doesnt make it an immoral one.
If you assume that self-harm isn't morally wrong then we agree to disagree.
No im not assuming anything. You are the one claiming self-harm is wrong, I am notasserting it either way. You are the one who is obligated to explain why logically self-harm is immoral.
@freemo Wow, for me, it's self-evident that self-harm is morally wrong, I just mention if we can't agree that simple principle, then we agree to disagree.
@voidabyss We arent agreeing or disagreeing. If it is self-evident then it should be very easy to explain why its morally wrong. I'd be interesting to hear that argument.
@freemo
Someone engaging in self-harm is an indication of underlying emotional distress or mental health issue.
Morality stems from your belief system and your ability to feel compassion. If you don't feel any compassion toward someone engaging in self-harm nor your belief system don't condone it, that might be an indication of a psychopathic tendencies.
> Someone engaging in self-harm is an indication of underlying emotional distress or mental health issue.
This statement isnt true all the time. Obviously some people who engage in self-harm sure, that is true. But the vast majority of self-harm this isnt true.
When you eat a burger instead of a salad, that is harmful. Its self harm, we just accept it. You arent mentally ill for it.
When someone gets a tattoo, or more to the point, scarification work, it isnt due to a mental illness, its due to wanting a particular aesthetic.
So no this fundemental statement isnt automatically true. Is self harm only immoral when its due to underlying mental health or distress? Or is it always immoral?
> Morality stems from your belief system
I mean this is true for literally everything you believe, the things you believe are part of your system of believing. I dont think this statement is adding anything. You still need to have reasoning for why you beleive a thing however if it is to have any merit as an idea.
> ...and your ability to feel compassion.
This feels like the closest we have gotten to an answer that seems to have some substance to it.
Would you agree with me to say compassion is basically saying you dont like to see people suffering, it makes you feel bad, and thus compassion compels us to try to prevent things that cause suffering?
> If you don’t feel any compassion toward someone engaging in self-harm nor your belief system don’t condone it, that might be an indication of a psychopathic tendencies.
It might be, but whether im psychopathic or not im not sure is all that relevant tot he question of how to check if something is moral or not.
But as per the above, I hope we agree not **all** self harm is due to underlying suffering or mental illness. So even if i am quite compassionate I should only feel bad for people where self-harm is using in a way that causes them to suffer (or is due to them suffering) no?
@freemo
> But as per the above, I hope we agree not all self harm is due to underlying suffering or mental illness.
I don't agree with that assessment, nor the examples your mentioned as "self-harm".
Here are some examples of self-harm and people engaging in those should seek help.
- Self-harm: This refers to intentionally causing harm to oneself, such as cutting, burning, or hitting oneself.
- Eating disorders: Conditions like anorexia nervosa, bulimia nervosa, and binge eating disorder are considered self-deviant behaviors as they involve unhealthy relationships with food and body image.
- Substance abuse: Engaging in excessive and harmful use of drugs or alcohol can be considered a form of self-deviance.
- Compulsive gambling: When someone develops an uncontrollable urge to gamble, even to the point of causing financial and personal problems, it is considered a self-deviant behavior.
- Addictive behaviors: This includes any behavior that becomes compulsive and interferes with daily life, such as excessive internet use, gaming addiction, or shopping addiction.
@voidabyss
> I don’t agree with that assessment, nor the examples your mentioned as “self-harm”.
Ok sure lets go through it then.
> Here are some examples of self-harm and people engaging in those should seek help.
We are trying to figure out the rules, so jumping to examples is great, but that doesnt help unless you can tell me the rules that determine if an example qualifies. In this case you are trying to define what self-harm is, but the examples dont get us there... even if i use them they contradict. for example....
> Self-harm: This refers to intentionally causing harm to oneself, such as cutting, burning, or hitting oneself.
Ok so just this example alone agrees with most of my examples.
Eating extremely unhealthy food causes harm, I think thats pretty undeniable. Also when we eat extremely unhealthy food it is intentional. So it meets your two criteria for what is self harm in this example, being that it is harmful and intention to one's self.
Same thing for my other examples, tattoos, scarification, literally everything i listed qualifies under your statement of what self harm is above.. yet you claim it isnt... why?
For me the examples you are giving feel alot more like "things that are not good to do" and a lot less like "things that are immoral to do". Making bad decisions isnt the same as making immoral decisions.