The fact that Andrew Tate does what he does and says what he says without interference or consequence, just keeps ramping it up & never stopped being insanely popular with teenage boys even before getting Twitter back shows there’s no such thing as cancel culture jesus christ
Agreed.
Will be interesting to see what happens next, however let him say what he wants to say, let the followings keep liking, then tell them where to go when a future employer looks them up on line and decides to put their CV in the bin or terminate their employment.
This could happen, only what then happens is that is everyone else's fault not theirs for clicking like.
+bonifartius 𒂼𒄄
@zleap @catvalente what entirely is missing from this discussion is that tate is a symptom.
Does the fact he is popular despite misogynist views, show a deeper issue with society generally? Granted teenagers rebel, so perhaps liking him is a way to rebel, but even that must have some limitations.
If you look at some Football (soccer) players being accused and even convicted of rape, or how some of the rich people behave generally sometimes towards others, that somehow they think the rules don't apply to them. I guess an example here, is how Musk treatment of Twitter employers, sacked as if they are trash that is no longer needed or others sacking 100's of workers over a zoom call.
Are there deeper problems? and perhaps a lack of real role models?
@zleap @catvalente
longish ranty reply incoming.
well, tate didn't turn out this way by himself. he is the product of society, like everyone.
i think the problem is that we have no real values anymore. everything is for sale, even wokeness is working so well because it's capitalized.
young men are stuck in the middle (i'd say young women too, but i can't speak for them). the whole "be nice" stuff is a lie, it's not being nice that's wanted but "shut up and play along" to whatever thing is the current thing.
the response in turn doesn't mean that you have to be like tate, but instead they should be what peterson calls "dangerous" - being capable of violence and bad behavior but actively choosing not to. maybe things should be handled like judo, not against the force but with it - like suggested by the "be dangerous" approach. men have higher levels of aggression, either use it as productive force for good or for (self-)destruction. the mainstream hates the animalist core humans have, wants to eradicate it. look at the west, we are closer to brave new world than is funny. the biggest insult against our nature is the generalized "best not get children" push, which started with the boomers telling us to wait with having children until it's _almost too late_. now it's for "the climate". better work for the man and take away the emptyness with booze, you might miss out on life (read: consumption).
i won't shed a tear for twitter employees, if anything they are responsible for the situation. they've made more than enough money off of eroding discussion culture in the west.
Long reply to this too
Agreed, the issue with "the whole "be nice" stuff is a lie, it's not being nice that's wanted but "shut up and play along" to whatever thing is the current thing." Yeah sometimes the saying ' cruel to be kind' works, so in some cases you just say shut up and grow up.
I think people perhaps need a proper outlet for agression, so at one time we had national service for people a call up to serve in the military. I agree on values, people lack family, some kids are neglected / abuse, abandoned to the streets, so the only family they find are gangs, who groom them in to thinking that their family don't like them, it is their fault and they are worthless. Once done the grooming carries on so the gang say that person is worth something, oh here is a new phone, now here are some drugs to sell etc. That young person has found a new family, they just don't have that persons interest at heart, as they are expendable.
One way to do this is to have more sports clubs for example so children can develop and channel their agression, ideally not football (soccer) as I really don't think that there is much in the way of respect for officials in a lot of games. But martial arts teaches you discipline and control for example.
In terms of productive force for good, many of the jobs traditionally undertaken by men are gone, the tough jobs like mining, industry, car making etc, gone or replaced by robots. Working in coal (or any) mine was very tough, so perhaps left little time for anything else.
We can't go back, but education systems need to adapt so they are not producing people for obsolete jobs, we need science, technology, engineering and maths, which can be done by everyone, (as can mining of course), people who can think, question, adapt, develop new ideas, express ideas freely and improve.
In that respect we need more clubs that focus on those topics, but we need employers to get on board and support them (and as a person who runs such clubs, employers are no where to be seen) kids need role models to set the example and encourage development of these skills, they also need parents who are supportive and take them to clubs and take an interest.
@zleap
sigh, somehow power went out and i lost another longish reply. i'll try to concisely put what i have written. it's late here so bear with me if not everythings well written :)
i meant the shut up and play along more in the sense of "on purpose ignoring their needs", which starts in the schools. schools are torture devices anyway, at least in my opinion. designed to break in the good workers of the future.
i'm against mandatory services for the government. especially military service. i don't care about "germany". i do care about my family, my neighbors and maybe my town because i know people here. i have an interest to keep things going, which the government might or might not have, depending on their goals. so maybe things like the local volunteer firefighters are a good way.
spitballing regarding jobs: i think it would be wise to reduce the industrialization of agriculture while pushing for more sustainable ecological practices. this would create a lot of meaningful jobs. also we'd have localized food production again, which is what you want as a region. in general i think just throwing more technology onto our problems won't help this time. less of, but better technology might work though.
mining and similar jobs were done by men because of their physique but also because of the value women have for a society. the west has efficiently de-throned women of their special status being life-givers.
i think it is a dire mistake to spin this cherishing of women into "they regard you as birthing machines". somewhere deep inside the "animal men" is the wish to serve and protect a family/higher purpose/etc. and to sacrifice yourself for it. there is this meme about the four ways for men to exit depression, i think it is true to a degree. this is where aggression was going. going to the mines for your family/country/whatever.
we have not stopped with killing god, mainstream progressives are continuing to kill off other spiritual values which give people a purpose. hell even the "extinction rebellion" is now thrown in front of the bus by western governments as it interferes with consumption. the XR people in germany certainly didn't expect that they'll end up in jail.
values are exactly what makes "the right" so attractive to many. it's not "everything goes". i am _really_ amazed that "the left" doesn't understand this. at least the soviets knew better and created a value system while tearing down the old one.
@catvalente