🇳🇱
@wakingrufus I'm a left-handed #leftie person and I'm also an #aspie (Asperger Syndrome / #Autism Spectrum). I've experienced all sorts of discrimination like being the son of the Devil because I'm left-handed and laughed at, dismissed, taken advantaged of, because I'm AS. And I for one have the same view as @🎓 Dr. Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱.
As someone who knows what it's like to be on the receiving end of discrimination and being forced to do things against his will, we know and we learn to respect others. We do not want to do to others what others did and are doing to us. Change must start somewhere and we chose for it to start with us instead of taking revenge and force others to our own will.
Anything "movement" is rarely "for the people" and "for equality". In fact, people doesn't understand what equality is. What we need is fairness. What we need is equity. What we need is education. Even funnier, the people these movements are claiming to protect and fighting for are mostly dismissing their efforts, even calling these "movements" as actually hurting their cause. And rightly so.
There are many such cases of people asserting "equality" here in the #Philippines but were shut down on the spot because of its faulty logic. Even their very own local "movement" avoids such argument or approach to equality because they realised how wrong it is, and is starting to instead fight for equity and education (but still calling it equality incorrectly so they are causing confusion).
Why are we insisting to replace fairness with equality? Why are we insisting to replace common sense and education with "movements"? What happened to our Human Rights? In the baker example, refusing to bake a cake for someone for whatever reason is not new at all. Most of the time the reasons are silly and rarely the serious type. Yet in those cases, in those times before these "movements" came, we just shrugged and tell them "your loss, not ours" and we move to another baker.
Is it so hard? Why make a big fuss about it? It's their human right to refuse service for whatever reason. It's not like they're the only one providing their particular service.
Now, do I agree with the baker refusing to bake a cake for someone because that someone has beliefs and practices that goes against their beliefs? I don't. But it is their right to refuse and to practice their beliefs.
Let's be more specific here. I also don't agree with their logic and understanding that by providing services to people they don't agree with, they are agreeing with those people's beliefs. These bakers in the example, we all know these are Christian people, their logic is flawed. I read the Bible, I believe in it, and the Bible never said nor implied anything pertaining to their logic. Not even anything close or far. There just isn't.
In other words, they can provide services because providing services doesn't mean they agree! They are using the Bible to protect their "personal choice" without knowing that they are putting the Bible in the wrong light. Their logic is wrong. What if they're doctors? Someone is dying. Based on their faulty logic, they'll refuse to save the person because they're someone who has beliefs and practices they don't agree with, and they will quote Bible verses.
See where I'm getting at? Yes, they have a right to refuse, a right granted by our own human made laws that goes all the way up to the Human Rights. But I disagree with their logic and reason why they refuse to give service. Two totally different things. But do we have a right to force down other's throats what we believe in? No. If you want to point out why their logic is flawed, do it. But to shame them, get them arrested, or force their business to shut down? Especially when they refused politely and in some cases even begged for understanding because they fear the "movements"? Fear! Imagine that.
And no, you can't tell me I'll understand once I experience it myself. As I already said, been there, done that, "your loss, not mine". If I ask for services from a business establishment I found out to have a different belief than I do and I really want them to do it but they refused me? I'll even talk to them and ask why so I'll understand their point of view. They may have a stereotype of "Chistians" for example, and I can share with them that their stereotype is incorrect (as is usually is the case with stereotyping). But if they still refuse, I'll just say thank you, smile, and move on. That's the Christian way. That's the civil way. That's the human way.
As someone who knows what it's like to be on the receiving end of discrimination and being forced to do things against his will, we know and we learn to respect others. We do not want to do to others what others did and are doing to us. Change must start somewhere and we chose for it to start with us instead of taking revenge and force others to our own will.
Anything "movement" is rarely "for the people" and "for equality". In fact, people doesn't understand what equality is. What we need is fairness. What we need is equity. What we need is education. Even funnier, the people these movements are claiming to protect and fighting for are mostly dismissing their efforts, even calling these "movements" as actually hurting their cause. And rightly so.
There are many such cases of people asserting "equality" here in the #Philippines but were shut down on the spot because of its faulty logic. Even their very own local "movement" avoids such argument or approach to equality because they realised how wrong it is, and is starting to instead fight for equity and education (but still calling it equality incorrectly so they are causing confusion).
Why are we insisting to replace fairness with equality? Why are we insisting to replace common sense and education with "movements"? What happened to our Human Rights? In the baker example, refusing to bake a cake for someone for whatever reason is not new at all. Most of the time the reasons are silly and rarely the serious type. Yet in those cases, in those times before these "movements" came, we just shrugged and tell them "your loss, not ours" and we move to another baker.
Is it so hard? Why make a big fuss about it? It's their human right to refuse service for whatever reason. It's not like they're the only one providing their particular service.
Now, do I agree with the baker refusing to bake a cake for someone because that someone has beliefs and practices that goes against their beliefs? I don't. But it is their right to refuse and to practice their beliefs.
Let's be more specific here. I also don't agree with their logic and understanding that by providing services to people they don't agree with, they are agreeing with those people's beliefs. These bakers in the example, we all know these are Christian people, their logic is flawed. I read the Bible, I believe in it, and the Bible never said nor implied anything pertaining to their logic. Not even anything close or far. There just isn't.
In other words, they can provide services because providing services doesn't mean they agree! They are using the Bible to protect their "personal choice" without knowing that they are putting the Bible in the wrong light. Their logic is wrong. What if they're doctors? Someone is dying. Based on their faulty logic, they'll refuse to save the person because they're someone who has beliefs and practices they don't agree with, and they will quote Bible verses.
See where I'm getting at? Yes, they have a right to refuse, a right granted by our own human made laws that goes all the way up to the Human Rights. But I disagree with their logic and reason why they refuse to give service. Two totally different things. But do we have a right to force down other's throats what we believe in? No. If you want to point out why their logic is flawed, do it. But to shame them, get them arrested, or force their business to shut down? Especially when they refused politely and in some cases even begged for understanding because they fear the "movements"? Fear! Imagine that.
And no, you can't tell me I'll understand once I experience it myself. As I already said, been there, done that, "your loss, not mine". If I ask for services from a business establishment I found out to have a different belief than I do and I really want them to do it but they refused me? I'll even talk to them and ask why so I'll understand their point of view. They may have a stereotype of "Chistians" for example, and I can share with them that their stereotype is incorrect (as is usually is the case with stereotyping). But if they still refuse, I'll just say thank you, smile, and move on. That's the Christian way. That's the civil way. That's the human way.
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@yahananxie
I just want to point out that the baker's objection was not making a cake for people who were homosexual. The objection was to making a cake for a homosexual wedding.
The baker (I believe rightly) saw that as his creative output being used as part of an act he found immoral and therefore refused to participate.
Even if the excuse were "no, you're a fag, get out of my store," I think he's within his rights to do that (dick that he would be).
But that's not even the issue here.
@wakingrufus @freemo
