Please, share and debate
(I tried writing the poll neutral, even though I think half of the list is delusional)
Do you believe there is a possibility of left and right to calm down and start a reasonabke debate, considering, that:
The left:
Castrates kids, approves of grooming, protests for killing babies etc
The right:
Tried an insurrection, want to kill trans people, hate minorities, want rich to be richer etc
@LukeAlmighty modern Americans are too stupid to make up but too pussy to make war, it will probably be a couple of decades of the shit you have now until anything changes. By the way, calling fetuses with no developed nervous systems "babies" is about as retarded as calling acorns "oak trees" lol
@Amikke
Although I do agree with your first half, the second is just plane whataboutism.
And it changes nothing about the fact, that it is exactly what does a right wing person see. A baby, that was murdered, because his mother couldn't be arsed to use rubber.
If you can look up pictures of aborted babies without your stomac turning inside out, you might be a psychopath. And people who see these pictures will build up rage with every single mention of a woman bragging about her right to murder even more.
(btw, I don't have a strong opinion on abortions in particular, but is is the clearest example of behavior, that left is willing to ignore just how demonic they sound when they talk about it.)
@LukeAlmighty yeah, that's what a right-wing person sees because they refuse to consider the matter further than "monkey brain see little monkey, monkey brain mad little monkey dead". It's perfectly understandable, it's our basic instinct after all, but with our understanding of nervous system and fetus development it's not a reasonable stance for enforcing the "protection" of such not-yet-developed fetuses and sacrificing the wellbeing of perfectly good adult humans in the process. It's not really a matter of discussion, it's a matter of education and fucking off other people's reproductive decisions.
Exemptions can be made for cases of rape and so on.
@Jens_Rasmussen @Amikke
The best argument for abortion rights is:
Would you seriously want the kid to live with such a person?
But this argument is rarely being used for some reason.
@Jens_Rasmussen @Amikke
I said for abortion....
@Jens_Rasmussen @LukeAlmighty oh, I whole-heartedly disagree. I've gotten to know many "unwanted children", some of which went through an orphanage and some simply had to grow up with parents that don't love them and blame them for ruining their lives simply by being accidentally conceived. Most were mad they had to be born to such situation, some committed or at least attempted suicide before even reaching adult age. Nearly all support the right to (early) abortion, reasoning it can prevent such situations by literally aborting the fetus before it can start to feel or think.
Abortion is most definitely morally preferable over forcing a child to be born unwanted. And that's only considering the child's perspective, if we add the parents and the effects of such situations on the society around them, the case for abortion becomes crystal clear.
@Jens_Rasmussen @LukeAlmighty you don't fix the mistakes humans make by saying they're bad. That's real life for ya. People always had irresponsible conceptions, even when they believed they will go to literal hell for eternity for premarital sex, what makes you think you shunning them is going to accomplish?
The popular "just don't have sex" argument is a non-solution and everyone that's been a teen and can add 2 and 2 together can tell you that.
It will certainly lessen the amount of unwanted children, if abortion is not a thing and having unwanted children is frowned upon. It's not a 100% fix, but I don't think there is such a thing. More importantly; the lack of a 100% fix doesn't mean "welp, just kill 'em then".
>The popular “just don’t have sex” argument is a non-solution
It seems like a much better solution than "just kill the children", if you ask me.
@Jens_Rasmussen @LukeAlmighty you cannot kill something that has never lived. From the perspective of the fetus, it doesn't exist yet. The point of abortion is to abort it before it has the chance to start.
@Jens_Rasmussen @LukeAlmighty an acorn has the capacity to turn into an oak tree, but it's not there yet. A fertilised but not yet developed egg has the capacity to turn into a chicken, but it's not there yet. You don't "kill a chicken" by cooking such an egg, you don't "chop down an oak tree" by cleaning up acorns, and you don't "kill a person" by aborting an early fetus.
If you're """pro-life""", this is the exact point you refuse to understand, opting instead for monkey brain reasoning.
@Jens_Rasmussen @LukeAlmighty humans are animals. We may consider ourselves "on a different level", and I don't disagree - having a choice to save the life of a human baby or a kitten, I'll choose the human. It comes from both the natural evolutionary instinct to prefer the organisms more related to ourselves and the understanding that with our higher mental capacity comes increased, let's say, ethical weight, which also causes us to prefer a dog over an ant, or a crow over a carp.
However, I find other-species examples helpful, because it's easier for people to operate on concepts they know from real life over bioethics theory.
It doesn't change the fact that I still consider a human growing the womb to be alive enough that destroying it would be the same as killing it.
@Amikke @Jens_Rasmussen
There is no refusal to understand, we just see it as the laziest whataboutism there is.
That human is already growing since the second a sperm touches the egg.
We get it, that you love killing the baby, but renaming it to fetus does not change the underlying reality.
We do not live inside Cambridge Dictionary.
There's a bit more to what happens in the womb than that, but suffice to say that when an abortion is taking place then all the other necessary steps have also happened.
@Amikke @Jens_Rasmussen
If you call an ant "elephant", he does not gain thousands of times in weight. So why should calling a baby "fetus" make it moral to kill it?
@LukeAlmighty @Jens_Rasmussen literally nobody except for a statistical edge of psychopaths loves killing babies. How do you manage to grasp the concept of whataboutism while at the same time insisting that I or any other pro-choice person "loves killing babies", which is just a plain fabrication?
@Amikke @Jens_Rasmussen
Oh, ok...
And if I say, they love killing fetuses, will that be ok?
@LukeAlmighty @Jens_Rasmussen hah, but no. There's no "love killing x" aspect to the discussion on abortion, whatever you choose to call "x". If someone insists otherwise, they probably need to talk to an actual human living in this reality instead of whatever they usually consult lol
I not only eat products made from seeds and grains, I even eat meat from slaughtered animals.