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@freemo I guess that's what you get for not being a cop!
and she'll get away with it too unless the dude surveilled the inside of his own house.
@msmouse Yet another in a long list of reasons why i stay the fuck away from america as often as i can. That and the bat shit crazy democrats and conservatives who have the maturity of toddlers. America is really an unbearable place in every respect.
It isn't just that a person killed another person- it's that an off duty police officer killed someone while, technically, breaking into the other person's house.
She then proceeded to get special treatment by her fellows in law enforcement. This, too, is not unique in the US- but it can't be ignored given the recent issues within the LEO community in the USA.
@Surasanji What does LEO stand for? I don't know all the details, but it sounds like a person accidentally went into the wrong apartment instead of her own, thought an intruder was there, confronted and wrongly attacked the person and I would expect...
that person to be tried and found guilty of manslaughter or murder or whatever this legally is.
Even America can't stop people from making mistakes and prevent committing crimes. But in many places I think the person would go free simply because her day job is with the police, I don't expect that to be the case in America.
Maybe I'm missing part of the story. I don't think it's a unique attribute of the USA for someone to entered the wrong apartment by mistake and have a confrontation.
What I'm missing is why this is a reason to be anti US.
@freemo @msmouse
@Surasanji What does LEO stand for? I don't know all the details, but it sounds like a person accidentally went into the wrong apartment instead of her own, thought an intruder was there, confronted and wrongly attacked the person and I would expect...
so, definitions vari a little from place to place:
Murder 1: unlawful killing with premidation
Murder 2/Voluntary manslaughter: intentional unlawful killing, but in a situation so provocative you "went crazy"
1/n
@Surasanji What does LEO stand for? I don't know all the details, but it sounds like a person accidentally went into the wrong apartment instead of her own, thought an intruder was there, confronted and wrongly attacked the person and I would expect...
Felony Homicide: the unintentional killing, but the killer was in the commision of a felony (i.e. no one was supposed to get hurt...)
2/n
@Surasanji What does LEO stand for? I don't know all the details, but it sounds like a person accidentally went into the wrong apartment instead of her own, thought an intruder was there, confronted and wrongly attacked the person and I would expect...
Involuntary Manslaughter (often called just manslaughter): The unintentional killing, but the killer was in commision of a misdemeanor.
3/n
@SurasanjiWhat does LEO stand for?I ...
So in this case, they are saying the cop unlawfully trespassed, and the killing just kinda sorta happened, but wasn't an intent. (and the court would probably include "reflex" or "defensively")
A agree, if you went in there, they would be like "THEY HAD A GUN! SEE! THEY PLANNED IT!"
Long discussion Re: Law Enforcement Officers (LEOs)
That is true. We would have to look into the definitions as they exist in Texas.
But this woman walked past 20+ apartments with distinctive wreathes, welcome mats, and on the wrong floor of her apartment building. She put her key in the door of the wrong apartment- and somehow got into this guy's apartment and shot him.
I doubt it was premeditated, but this is most certainly an unjust and unlawful killing. We must expect better from armed officers, in particular their situational awareness and readiness to shoot another human being.
It's a dicey thing. You want your LEOs to be quick on the draw, but not trigger happy either.
Long discussion Re: Law Enforcement Officers (LEOs)
@Surasanji
The article you linked to said the report was that the door was open, not locked, not sure if the apartment was next door, down 20 apartments, on the wrong elevator floor.... It's easy to judge before we know the details. But it sounds like this will go through the courts as it should, tried by a jury as it should, etc. The process so far looks like it's working, no?
@msmouse @freemo
Long discussion Re: Law Enforcement Officers (LEOs)
Potentially. She wrote a police report, though, with her affidavit.
When I worked in law enforcement one of the first things they taught me in writing reports was how they should be worded. They're *specifically* designed and worded to ensure that minimum fault falls on the report writer.
Having worked in that industry, as a Corrections Officer, I've seen some things that just left a sour taste in my mouth. It is a part of my bias.
The keys were found in the door. That's a major thing- I don't know if he left it unlocked or what, or if the door was ajar when she arrived.
We'll see where this goes- you are correct that we're early in the legal proceedings, but at the same time it is infuriating to see another human being murdered (As this is an unjust killing.) for apparently no reason.
Long discussion Re: Law Enforcement Officers (LEOs)
@Surasanji
Agreed.
@msmouse @freemo
Long discussion Re: Law Enforcement Officers (LEOs)
I deal the same thing in tech, what caused the outage? well, there were 100 factors...but I right it to emphasise what I want...
But you can't own your successes if you don't own your failures. I'll put my failures there every time. And I'll be the first to call my boss and say I fucked up.
Long discussion Re: Law Enforcement Officers (LEOs)
@msmouse @SecondJon @freemo Yeah, being able to actually admit your own fuck ups is a huge thing. and almost universally people seem to respect someone who can admit that they were wrong or made a mistake.
I, too, am quick to tell my boss when something is my fault.
Long discussion Re: Law Enforcement Officers (LEOs)
@Surasanji @SecondJon @freemo
That drives my audit/compliance team crazy, but I blame them for that :)
It.. can be hard sometimes. Had to wake up my boss's boss one morning cause he needed to tell a Partner. That was un-fun.
Long discussion Re: Law Enforcement Officers (LEOs)
Not locked may make her position more "understandable", but Breaking and entering is generally defined as breaking the seal of the building, not a Physical breaking. Mentioning to just expose a legal mindset.
Long discussion Re: Law Enforcement Officers (LEOs)
@Surasanji @SecondJon @freemo
In a nutshell- exactly. We need to have -high-standards-
@SurasanjiWhat does LEO stand for?I ...
@Surasanji @SecondJon @freemo
But this is actually HUGE!
Usually, they're like "well, cops make mistakes" and if it's just a simple mistake like going to the wrong place or searching when they only thought they had a warrant, people are like whatevs. (duck: Good Faith Exception)
Which brings like 0.00% accountability to people who carry guns, and no incentive to not make mistakes.
Like holy cow, how did you not see this coming?!
@Surasanji What does LEO stand for? I don't know all the details, but it sounds like a person accidentally went into the wrong apartment instead of her own, thought an intruder was there, confronted and wrongly attacked the person and I would expect...
@SecondJon @freemo @msmouse LEO=Law Enforcement Officer.
The major issue is she's trying to use her position as a police officer to protect herself from the crimes she committed.
Again, that is not something unique to the USA, but law enforcement officials have been acting in non-uniform ways with various communities and ethnic groups.
This also falls into this. She claims she thought a thief was in her apartment- but it wasn't her apartment. It was someone else's apartment that she had to enter.
At the end of the day an innocent, unarmed man was shot in his own home by someone who didn't belong there. A travesty in and of itself, of course. However, that the person who did this shooting is also an off-duty police officer calls into question the individual's position and the nature of the Law Enforcement community in Texas that they were so willing to protect 'one of their own' in such a way that could be considered a criminal miscarriage of justice.
If I- even accidentally- walked into someone else's house and shot them dead, I'm pretty sure I'd be charged with murder. So far, this woman has only been charged with manslaughter.
Here are a couple of news articles about it: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/09/13/why-dallas-officer-who-killed-her-neighbor-might-have-trouble-with-deadly-force-defense/?utm_term=.ac737e42137c
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/10/us/dallas-police-shooting-guyger-jean.html