@theruran Project Oberon is also horrible to actually use. You want to do bit twiddling? You will need to use MOD instead of anything sensible.

While Chrome is an extreme example, Oberon code is _very_ hard to read due to its lack of basic abstractions.

Even Forth, which is infinitely smaller than all of Project Oberon has better means for doing basic stuff.

@amszmidt
weren't that kind of an whole idea of MODs? That doing extensions is separate and cannot break original API? so people who don't like the new way can just keep using old way (or implement their own improvement as a different MOD)?
@theruran

@mnalis @theruran MOD here was referring to modulus. Oberon lacks shift, divisions and other basic operations .

@amszmidt @theruran Confused 😕 what is wrong with "DIV" for divisions? Is it the names of the operators that confuse you, or the fact they use raw values for shifting bits instead of exponents in base 2? Even in C, I was always used to consistency of "% 0xFF" or "* 0x100" instead of sometimes using raw values (like for modulo) and sometimes base-2 exponents (like for "<< 8")? Anyway, point of strongly typed is that you should avoid manually encoding one data type (boolean/bit) to other (int)!

@amszmidt @theruran But I agree that I'm not a big fan of programming language over-verbosity like in #Pascal / #Oberon .... typing BEGIN/END all the time gets very tiring very fast. Even C's {} are annoying due to shift-usage. Python replacing that with indentation is on the right track, but there is still too many of shift-requiring parenthesis, quotes and colons contributing to #RSI health issues. I think I'll choose next language exclusively based on if it can be used without shift keys 😄

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@mnalis

nothing that an editor cannot accomodate for. And actually, I think is easier to accomdate for **few** uppercase keywords than for symbols such as { } ( ) : ? and so on.

Anyway, which programming language you ended picking next?

@amszmidt @theruran

@Shamar@qoto.org

Also nobody ever complains about strings that, afaik, are represented in the program text with ", ' or ` in most of programming languages

@mnalis@mastodon.online @amszmidt@mastodon.social @theruran@hackers.town
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