@interfluidity
I don't see any problem of you living up to your standards, but the question was more like "why tf is everyone giving up, is it because we are nearly dead or more like, some not-humane human handling?"

Sorry if that was too graphic, i hope i explained my point in an understandable way.

@jeffcliff @Hyolobrika @PippiPunkstrumpf @VeroniqueB99 @renardboy @the_etrain @Alice @CorvidCrone

@admitsWrongIfProven @jeffcliff @Hyolobrika @PippiPunkstrumpf @VeroniqueB99 @renardboy @the_etrain @Alice @CorvidCrone social media are full of people ready to attack and undermine contestable positions, particular more optimistic ones. “giving up”, or at least appearing to on social media by portraying a world-weary hopeless cynicism, is defensive, self-protection, a kind of online fetal position.

@interfluidity
I guess i didn't describe very well what i mean.

I have a feeling like a new kind of "giving up" feeling is there. Not on social media, but pervasive. People doing their job, but not trying to achieve the goal that is fundamental to that job.

@jeffcliff @Hyolobrika @PippiPunkstrumpf @VeroniqueB99 @renardboy @the_etrain @Alice @CorvidCrone

@admitsWrongIfProven @interfluidity @jeffcliff@shitposter.club @Hyolobrika @PippiPunkstrumpf @VeroniqueB99 @renardboy @the_etrain @Alice

"People doing their job, but not trying to achieve the goal that is fundamental to that job."

This is an effect of late-stage capitalism. But you will also find this occurring during the end of most empires, only we are globally interconnected that it's not confined to one nation state.

@CorvidCrone
Do you have an opinion on if that is more a function of the foreseeable ending of the cycle or more of an artifact of the daily pressures, the non-visibility of the effectiveness of our work?

Does the looming end do us in, or are we unhappy because the enrichment in our cage is crap?

@interfluidity @Hyolobrika @PippiPunkstrumpf @VeroniqueB99 @renardboy @the_etrain @Alice

@admitsWrongIfProven @interfluidity @Hyolobrika @PippiPunkstrumpf @VeroniqueB99 @renardboy @the_etrain @Alice

Oh, our enclosure is a "gold" painted cage with enrichment that is unsuitable for our species.

Like keeping a bear in a mansion and only letting it entertain itself by doing circus tricks.

@CorvidCrone
Circulating because it was gold:
https://kolektiva.social/@CorvidCrone/114944852818425638

This was great, helped me with my perspective.

@interfluidity @Hyolobrika @PippiPunkstrumpf @VeroniqueB99 @renardboy @the_etrain @Alice

@admitsWrongIfProven @interfluidity @jeffcliff@shitposter.club @Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net @PippiPunkstrumpf @VeroniqueB99 @the_etrain @Alice @CorvidCrone My ugly honest take on this is that at this point individual efforts to curb climate change have to also be inline with resilience goals in order to maintain sanity.

I try to shift my habits away from what capitalism prescribes and towards living off the land, in a sustainable way that will also allow me to continue to thrive and support my community when the machine fails.

@admitsWrongIfProven @interfluidity @PippiPunkstrumpf @VeroniqueB99 @the_etrain @Alice @CorvidCrone I'm personally somewhat skeptical that climate change will bring about the complete eradication of humanity, much less all life on earth.

I fully expect things to get bad, but I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that the models that predicted runaway greenhouse effect did not manage to encompass the full complexity of the system at play here, and just came out wrong.

@renardboy
But we are all selfish, at least a bit. Eradication of humanity is not what is relevant, the danger to our individual selves is!

@interfluidity @PippiPunkstrumpf @VeroniqueB99 @the_etrain @Alice @CorvidCrone

@admitsWrongIfProven Hence the optimization of my climate action towards self-sufficiency as contingency.

A practical example is woodworking from salvaged urban logs. Every item I make is one that's not bought, so the wheels of capitalism turn a bit less. But I can also build a small cabin for myself.

I try to do my part in a way that inspires others to do the same, in hope to avert the crisis. I also cover my bases so with luck I can still make things work if shtf. Beyond that is beyond me.

@renardboy I guess the perspecive changes the more rural the area is?
I've been meaning to move to a more rural area, something i would not have wanted some years ago, if i can realize that, maybe my perspective changes too.

But i guess the grief from seeing how humans cause much unnecessary suffering won't change.

@admitsWrongIfProven I'm not sure. I grew up in the suburbs of Montreal, now I live in a small city that is the main urbanized area within its surroundings, but still only about 40 kilometers north of Montreal and connected to it via commuter rail.

I don't know how much my perspective was shaped by my area, I think I've just embraced the fact that what I see is not what most people see and I can't bridge the gap by force, so I just do my best and let this ruin wash over me, like a tree.

@renardboy
But what is the trigger? Reasonably sure hopelessness, or more humans held in non-humane ways?

@interfluidity @PippiPunkstrumpf @VeroniqueB99 @the_etrain @Alice @CorvidCrone

@renardboy
But what is the trigger? Reasonably sure hopelessness, or more humans held in non-humane ways?

@interfluidity @PippiPunkstrumpf @VeroniqueB99 @the_etrain @Alice @CorvidCrone

@CorvidCrone It feels nice you got that immediately.

So, if i understand correctly, the answer is "we are pretty fucked, and that leads to people behaving in any way that lets them deal with our fate", meaning it is about general hopelessness for good reason?

@admitsWrongIfProven yes and no.

Human beings do not like change in general, and we are highly adaptable. Which means, our species can get used to horrible abuses if they are added slowly enough for long enough.

The energy needed to bust through that inertia is really hard to summon when your energy is already being sucked out by the way modern life is organized. Getting a bunch of people to all summon this energy at the same time and agree on how to use it is even harder. However, because we are a social species, it's easier for us to summon the energy needed if others are doing it too.

I think what you're feeling is the collective realization that we need radical change, and the collective mourning of life we were taught to expect for ourselves. As my wife said the other day, "fuck, I don't wanna have to be a guerilla fighter in my forties "

@CorvidCrone I really appreciate both that you immediately understood what i was asking and that you let me down softly, explaining that what i am asking is not all that relevant.

It is not "this problem or that", it is more like "the culmination of those problems exerts a pressure, and identifying which is stronger will not relieve us of that pressure", right?

@admitsWrongIfProven

I don't think there is any one single pressure that causes this feeling.

We are in the part of the story where straws are being placed on the donkey's back one by one and we have no idea which one will be the one that broke the donkey's back, but we can see the donkey is struggling with the load. The donkey is slowing down, its legs are wobbling, and you can see the fear in the donkey's eyes.

On the one hand, you want to push all the straw off the poor thing and let it go be happy. On the other hand, every time someone tries they get slain before they can succeed. So, you start to hope the next straw is the last so we can all be freed of this slow motion torture, but that makes you feel wretched about yourself, because what kind of monster wants the donkey's back to break?

@CorvidCrone I guess the real question is agency.

No one Oligarch/Rich asshole could stop all this, but we, as non-rich assholes, can do very little. We can't even fail like one of the wannabe dictators, we would not have a fart of an impact.

I guess that is what drives me, how absurdly improbable it is that a club of wankers can create a world where working together is so improbable, we don't even see the light of day?

@admitsWrongIfProven

I wrote a long post in response, and then realized it had meandered way off topic.

The pathways written into a person's mind as a child are extremely difficult to change, especially if there are a thousand little ways those pathways are reinforced every day.

When you intentionally teach a generation to fear a concept, like socialism or communism or anarchism, you make it harder for those people to rearrange their mental pathways to accept it reexamine those concepts.

Is money real? What is freedom? What is good for a population? These are all taught to us as children as having definite answers. We are taught that there are right and wrong answers to these questions. Capitalism replies on the general populace having binary thinking

@CorvidCrone Do you still have that off topic text? I'd like to read it, if possible.

On the non-off-topic text you wrote, it is so perfectly hitting what i think that the oruborous circling is swelling to a cacophony of ever the same, but with a note of "not alone". Thank you for that.

Can't let people go on destroying themselves, can't stop them without being a cop. Much more time would be needed to talk it out, but the circle goes on, regardless of our needs. I'm happy to not be alone in this perception, thank you.

@CorvidCrone Many nice people have responded to my initial call, but it is absurd how your answers fit to what i wanted to know.

Humanity could be pretty nice, if we could take the time to sync all this chatter, instead of saying it once.

I got a feel about you, that you put value on hashing out what something means, that you would discuss further instead of just dismissing it. I think most people would, given the time. It feels nice you do, even if time is short.

@admitsWrongIfProven

The meandering off topic post:

There is a phenomenon in the United States, where the farther you get from Washington DC, the less you feel the omnipresence of the federal government.

The further away you go, the more people resent the federal government making itself felt. The current administration hates this independence. Trump, especially, dispises anything he cannot purchase or control.

That physical and mental distance makes it harder to fight back against federal tyranny. How do you fight a ghost? So, you do just enough to evade the notice of the feds. This modus operandi spills over to other areas of inequality, like the workplace.

In response, the federal government sent the mother fucking military to LA.

@CorvidCrone That is, as i expected, very interesting. Thank you for sharing it!

So the US is large, and an additional dimension to the all-encompassing oppression is present, like a double take on lack of agency, the people are experiencing the oppression as a foreign thing, even if it is domestic. It is both harder to act and a thing that is more easy to hate.

It's funny how i learn new things but am still unable to turn things for the better ^^

Thanks for the inspiration, anyways!